---
title: How to Choose a Web Developer or Agency
date: 2019-07-16T05:30:00-04:00
author: Sean Smith
canonical_url: "https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-02/episode-3/how-to-choose-a-web-developer-or-agency/"
section: Podcast
---
<!\[CDATA\[YII-BLOCK-BODY-BEGIN\]\]>[Skip to main content](#main-content)Guest Angie Herrera
Angie Herrera is a UI designer & front-end developer from Portland, OR with nearly 20 years experience in branding & web design.
[ ](https://twitter.com/angieherrera)[ ](https://www.linkedin.com/in/angieherrera/)[ ](https://facebook.com/block81PDX)
Season 02 Episode 3 – Jul 16, 2019
38:35 [Show Notes](#show-notes)
## How to Choose a Web Developer or Agency
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In this episode I talk with Angie Herrara of Block 81 about how to choose a web developer or agency. This could be due to your relationship with your current developer isn't working out or because your business website needs have grown beyond what you can do by yourself.
### Show Notes
Price is not the bottom line you should focus on. Your focus should be on does the web developer try to understand your business and your business goals for the website. A good developer will be able to translate all the web jargon in a way that makes it easy for you to understand and work with them.
The starting point shouldn't be technology, it should be the goals of the website.
The key takeaway from this episode is that your developer or agency should be communicative and responsive.
### Show Links
- [Wix](https://www.wix.com/)
Powered Transcript Accuracy of transcript is dependant on AI technology.
**\[00:00\]** **Sean:** Just a quick note before the podcast starts. When I recorded this episode, I ended up having some technical issues with my track and there's a lot of clipping, so my voice sounds a little bit loud, maybe yelling, or something like that. It's still listenable. Just please understand and bear with me with the slightly poor audio quality. The content is well worth listening to. I hope you enjoyed this interview with Angie Herrera. Hi, welcome to the website 101 Podcast. I'm Sean Smith, your host. And today I'm joined by Angie Herrera from Block 81. And we're going to be talking about how to select a web company or a web developer and what to do when your current relationship isn't working out. Angie, welcome to the podcast. Could you introduce yourself a little?
**\[00:54\]** **Angie:** Yeah, thanks for having me, Sean. Yeah, so I, excuse me. So I run Block 81, my design studio, which is really just me for the most part, though I have people that help me from time to time that I rely on. But yeah, it's mostly just me. I've been doing it for, gosh, I want to say 15 years now. I've been a designer for almost 20. And yeah, so I'm a designer, front end developer. And the designer aspect isn't just for web stuff, I also do branding and print design, but primarily 95% of my work is on the web.
**\[01:30\]** **Sean:** Wow, 15 years on web and 20 years in design, that is a lot of history. It is.
**\[01:38\]** **Angie:** I've seen a lot of changes.
**\[01:40\]** **Sean:** I can imagine. So you do all of that work yourself, the design, the development, and then when you're busy, you'll hire somebody to help you out on an overflow basis.
**\[01:54\]** **Angie:** Yeah, for the most part, but then also like if there's something that's a little bit more complex that requires, you know, you know, custom PHP type stuff, plug-in writing, add-on writing, that sort of thing. That's above my pay grade, so I raise my hand on that one as well.
**\[02:12\]** **Sean:** I've also hired people to help out with some PHP work. There's only so much you can learn. The industry is so wide and deep. Yeah. Okay, so our topic today is to find out or give advice to people who are working with a web developer and there's some issues and they want to find a new one, or maybe there are new business, and they're looking for somebody to help them out. They're ready to move on, be on something like Wix or Squarespace, and they don't know how to choose a custom
**\[02:46\]** **Angie:** developer. So what are your thoughts on that? I have lots of thoughts on that. I know it's very broad and open-ended to start. It's, you know, it's tough. I never expect clients to really understand what goes into building a website, especially when you've got stuff like Wix, you know, they've got their YouTube ads, for instance. If you're ever on YouTube, they have their Wix ads that They're like, hey, I'm building my website, blah, blah, blah, which is great, but it oversimplifies what really happens. And what really needs to happen on a website to actually make it do the things you need it to do for your business. So finding the right designer developer is pretty tough in the sense that if you don't know anyone, then you're kind of starting from zero. You can do a bunch of research and look at Google, look it up on Google and see what you come up with. But that doesn't necessarily, you're finding the best fit for you. So one of the things that I recommend is to talk to your network of friends, your colleagues, that sort of thing. Someone probably knows someone who knows someone that knows a web designer, a web developer. And then from there, it's more or at a minimum.
**\[04:08\]** **Sean:** you could go talk to a business association. That's your local Chamber of Commerce or whatever?
**\[04:14\]** **Angie:** Yeah, yeah, if you belong to a networking group, there's a good chance that if there's not already a web developer in that group, then somebody probably knows someone. Especially if you're working with other business owners because they probably have a website that they had built by someone. So that's the best place to start. Yeah, that's okay.
**\[04:34\]** **Sean:** All right, so let's say I'm looking for somebody and my colleague or somebody in the business group recommends their web developer, should I just work with them or like, is it like, you know, I want to get some work done in my house and I get two or three quotes and I choose the cheapest quote or do I choose the middle quote because that's probably the best value or what are some red flags or things that I should look for that would make it a good choice or make me feel comfortable that I'm making the right choice.
**\[05:15\]** **Angie:** Yeah, that's a great question. And it doesn't always world down to price. Sometimes the higher quote is actually woefully inaccurate. They could just be bloating up the prices. And sometimes the lower quote really is giving you what you need. The price is actually a pretty bad indicator of the kind of developer or studio or agency that you're going to get. It really starts from the moment you interact with them. Some developers, they'll try to talk all this techno mumbo jumbo to you and you don't understand and that's not your job to understand all that. You need to understand it in a way that's going to help your business when a developer should be able to translate the jargon for their clients so that they can understand and make
**\[06:14\]** **Sean:** the right decision.
**\[06:15\]** **Angie:** That's not even the place to start the conversation. It really needs to start with, what are you trying to get out of this website? Is it as simple as I just need a website up? Because if that's the case, then that's going to give you a certain kind of site. or is it something like, I needed to integrate with my CRM, I needed to integrate with my POS, and whatever else I needed to do, and I needed to also bring in this amount of money, that sort of thing. Then you're talking about a bigger project that isn't just web design, it really is about integration and business growth and that sort of thing. So it really just, like I said, it depends on the conversation you start to have. And if the person that you're talking to for web design is just throwing names like craft or WordPress or expression engine or whatever, that doesn't matter. Like I only work with a few different CMS platforms, for instance, but at the end of the day, which one I put it on, doesn't matter a whole lot to the client. It matters to me because I know what's gonna get them from point A to point B, but they just want to get to point B. Do they need to know how to build a craft site, or do they need to know how to build a WordPress site? No, they don't. But so when a developer is starting to throw all of that stuff out, yeah, you should work on WordPress because it's the best. It's the most popular blah, blah, blah. That's just a developer being biased in their own tools. When really they should be asking you questions about, OK, what is it that you want to do with this website? Do you have a current website? If so, where is it failing? Where is it not doing what you needed to do? Maybe you don't need to redesign at all. Maybe we just need to freshen up what you have and optimize it for performance for SEO for whatever it may be.
**\[08:00\]** **Sean:** So the starting point shouldn't be the technology, it should be the goals of the website.
**\[08:07\]** **Angie:** Correct, absolutely.
**\[08:08\]** **Sean:** What are your business goals? What should this achieve? Because honestly, any CMS can achieve any business goal. It's just that having the developer understand the business goal then make that website, and make the CMS work to achieve your business easily and simply as possible.
**\[08:30\]** **Angie:** Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's a big thing because as designers and developers for the web, we have to basically be translators. And we need to not only translate the jargon, but we need to be able to translate clients' goals into whatever it is that we're building. To give you an example, I just started working with a client who had a developer, and they got, I don't know how far along they got in their project. I mean, deep enough to the point where the client finally pumped the brakes and was like, wait, wait, wait, this isn't what we're after. We wanted this, and we're going down this other direction. And so the, and it's really messed up because the client ended up pulling back and saying, I'm going to write a user experience document. They started writing a UX document. when honestly, that should have been done before the project even started, or should have been done at the very beginning of the project by the developer. Or it didn't have to be a UX document. It could have been just, you know, a creative brief, something to say, all right, this is what you've told me. This is what I understand. This is where we're going. Is this right? Yes, no, okay, if it isn't, then let's fix this. So we're all on the same page and then go from there. And that was critical for me when I was discussing this, this project with this new client, because they were already, I don't want to say burp because they don't, they don't have any ill will toward this other developer. They just didn't feel like they were understood, they didn't feel like they were listened to. And so it was kind of my job to play therapist and be like, oh, okay, well, this is what you want. I, you know, we can do that and I'm listening to you and that sort of thing. And it really is about listening and not just, you know, just saying, yeah, we can do it. We can do it, we can do it, really truly understand what they're where they're coming from.
**\[10:22\]** **Sean:** Yeah, you need to listen, not just here.
**\[10:24\]** **Angie:** Yeah, exactly.
**\[10:25\]** **Sean:** Yeah, I think it's really important, I agree, that it's really important to be able to understand what the client wants and needs. And if your developer is not asking questions, and instead just saying yes, yes, yes, then that's probably not the right person for you, you need somebody who's going to ask you questions. somebody who's willing to say, I think this is wrong. What you're saying and what you actually want are two different things, or you think this is a good idea because of A, B, and C. But here in my experience, a better approach is this. And then, you know, your developer or agency should be willing to push back on you.
**\[11:13\]** **Angie:** Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
**\[11:15\]** **Sean:** And that doesn't mean it's a my way or the highway, but they should be willing to negotiate
**\[11:21\]** **Angie:** what they've what the best approach for you. Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned earlier about you know a red flag coming up when you're talking to a potential developer, you're going to hire. That's one of them. If they're not asking questions, that's a big red flag. If they're just saying, yeah, we can do that. And they're only asking about budget and timeline. And they're not asking some of the deeper questions. That's a big red flag. That's probably due to
**\[11:46\]** **Sean:** either an experience as an independent business or somebody who's just familiar with being an employee and getting told what to do and just doing what they're told rather than thinking about business goals. Exactly. And you're
**\[12:02\]** **Angie:** right about the pushback too. Like you said, it doesn't mean that it's my way or the highway when I when I push back on something that the client is requesting or suggesting or whatever it's not because it needs to be done my way. I just want to make them aware of what the consequences are of what they're suggesting. If it doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing but maybe it could be done a better way and so I will push back and if they say if they still say no I want to do it this way then fine at least I've made them aware and if later on down the road, they realize, oh, you know what, that isn't working. I guess you were right in the first place. That's fine. At least, at least I let them know that they're not coming down, you know, down the road six months later and being like, you know what, we did this. I asked you to do this. Why? Why isn't it working? Oh, I guess I never explained it, you know, whatever. So it's better to just be up front and be like, you know what, I hear what you're saying. But I really think that this other way to get to the same point to the same end result is going to be better for you because of reason A, B or C. And most clients, they're going to be reasonable people and they're going to be like, okay, well, you know what you're doing because you've done this for however many years and I trust you. 15 or 20 years, right? And so yeah, I'm going to trust you and we're going to go with what you say as long as I'm getting what I think I want. So yeah. Yeah. I've pushed back on clients
**\[13:33\]** **Sean:** before and you know most times they will change their mind and agree with me and other times they won't and they'll say insist I want to do it this way and I say all right you know I've told you what I think and maybe I'm right and they'll come back and say hey we were wrong let's do it your way and now they're paid for it twice but other times you know they might be right and it's True. It works out for them and maybe it's because they have a deeper understanding of their business than I did. You know, not everything I'm going to say is correct, but your developer or your agency should be willing to push back on you and give you advice and not just be a yes-man.
**\[14:21\]** **Angie:** Right.
**\[14:22\]** **Sean:** Yeah, totally. All right, so we've been working for a couple of years or whatever with an agency or developer However, is there ever a time that I should start looking at getting a new web developer or a new agency, when might I consider that the relationship is ended or whatever?
**\[14:44\]** **Angie:** Yeah. Whatever. Yeah, I get what you're asking, like, you know, when, when is it time to move on, that sort of thing? You know, what are the other reasons?
**\[14:53\]** **Sean:** Yeah, because relationships never last forever.
**\[14:56\]** **Angie:** Yeah. That's a really good question and there's a there's in the bigger answer. There's like tiny little answers, right? So It really depends on what's going on with with your business If it's something as simple as well developers no longer responsive this developer isn't listening to me that sort of thing then Then it's time to will hopefully, you know, you sit down and have a talk with them and be like look Look, I have to email you multiple times to get something done. It takes you forever. You don't let me know that you're busy, that sort of thing. And a good professional developer would be like, you know, I'm really sorry. I will be better. Whatever. Let's work this way. Maybe you change some of the parameters of your working relationship. Otherwise, if it doesn't work out, then yeah, it's time for it to look for a new one. But if it's a matter of, if it's a matter of your business just out growing who you're working with, that's also, I mean, that also requires a conversation, I think, because
**\[16:00\]** **Sean:** it's... What would be an example of my business outgrowing the relationship with a network of
**\[16:05\]** **Angie:** all kinds? So, for instance, like, I'm primarily freelance, I guess, if you want to call it that, it's not my favorite word in the world, but, and I think you are too.
**\[16:14\]** **Sean:** I don't like that word myself.
**\[16:17\]** **Angie:** So as freelancers, there's only so much that we can do. I mean, yeah, we have people that we bring in and everything, but there's still only so much that we can do, especially once a business starts growing and starts needing different needs. When we work with a business that simply needs some help online with their websites and maybe with a little bit of their online marketing, that's one thing. But then if they start getting to that the deeper marketing, the deeper digital marketing that involves social, It involves paper click advertising and it involves all this other stuff that we don't necessarily work with or we don't have the resources to work with. Then that's the perfect time to be like, look, we really like working with you, but we need more. We've outgrown you, and there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, the best way to look at it is like, that's awesome because I've done my job. You're growing, I've contributed to that, even in a little bit, and now you need to move on to the next person or team. And there's nothing wrong with that. That's actually something to be kind of happy about.
**\[17:21\]** **Sean:** So as the developer, I should be happy that I've carried them this far, and that they're ready to move on to somebody else. I guess the reverse could be true as well, is that your agency or web developer could have outgrown you as a client.
**\[17:37\]** **Angie:** Absolutely.
**\[17:38\]** **Sean:** They might come back to you and say, well, you know, things have gotten really busier or I'm pivoting in a new direction and I need to up my rates and maybe those rates are more than your business is able to handle in that case it might be time
**\[17:52\]** **Angie:** to find another developer or whatever. Yeah I've actually recently heard of a story of a developer here in Portland who she was doing primarily what you and I do was building websites but then she she decided to switch gears and move into consulting almost entirely. So she still has a couple of web design clients but she's mostly doing consulting. So that's a perfect example of like, look, I'm switching gears. I can't work with you in this capacity anymore. If you want, I can help you in this new capacity. Otherwise, we need to part ways or I can help you find a new developer or whatever it may be. But yeah, that's another example.
**\[18:32\]** **Sean:** Actually, interestingly, that reminded me of a similar situation. I did some work for this developer several years ago. And he has since pivoted his business and he's working on PowerPoint, custom PowerPoints for people. And he recently reached out and offered to pass on contact information for some of his clients and I'm taking over the work from them.
**\[18:59\]** **Angie:** Right, right. Yeah, I've been on some of the situation too. Yeah, it definitely happens. I mean, things change. Nothing's really ever permanent. And so for me, the biggest thing is just being open and communicate honestly. My biggest pet peeve is when a client disappears and I get in touch with them to see how things are doing. And then they're like, oh, we're fine. And then later on, I realized they've had their entire site redesign and rebuilt. And I'm like, you could have at least told me that you were leaving. I would have been okay with that. It would have hurt and would have stunned, but you could have told me, you know?
**\[19:39\]** **Sean:** Yeah, that also happened to me a few years ago, and that's when I started in Meal English so that I can keep in touch with the client. Yeah, exactly, so at least. It was like, wow, you just went off and they ended up using square space, I think. And it was like, I checked in once a year, and I was like, well, I guess once a year is not enough. Yeah, yeah, totally. because they really didn't do a lot. And then all of a sudden, they were like, yeah, we just built a new site with Squarespace. It's like, wow, I would have loved to have help, but I didn't work out.
**\[20:14\]** **Angie:** Yeah, it's just a pet peeve of mine. I wish people would communicate a little bit better when they're feeling like they need a redesign. And if you just tell me, I don't want to work with you. OK, then thanks for letting me know. Then I can at least archive all my files that I have on you and not have a tick of any ruin on my computer. I don't know.
**\[20:32\]** **Sean:** Well, yeah, it's better than being left hanging. So let's assume that you're breaking it off with your current agency or developer, and it's an amicable breakup. Like we're no longer a fit. We're not hating each other. I mean, sometimes bad relationships happen, but let's assume it's a good relationship. What can the business owner expect to get from an agency or what should they get? And what are your responsibilities to the web developer or agency as well?
**\[21:10\]** **Angie:** Right. That really depends on your contract. So for instance, a lot of developers I know, and that sounds like I know a lot. At least the developers I've spoken to about this sort of thing and myself included, what they get as far as once their project is done, is they get the final product, right? They don't get my sketches, they don't get my native sketch file, that sort of thing. They get the final product, that includes the code. And so, if you are breaking it off in an amicable way, then I think a reasonable thing to expect is that you can take your website to a different host if you want, you can, all of that stuff, the hosting, the domain registrar, That should be under your control anyway. Shouldn't necessarily be under the control of your web agency. Sometimes it is, and that's fine, and in a professional enough agency, we'll be like, okay, you wanna leave. Here are the keys, basically, to your car. You can do whatever you want.
**\[22:13\]** **Sean:** Well, I do some hosting for my clients.
**\[22:15\]** **Angie:** Yeah, I do as well, quite a bit.
**\[22:18\]** **Sean:** But if a client wanted to leave, I'd be like, all right. And like you said, here's the keys, or go find, you're gonna find another host All right, great. Here's what you need to do. Boom.
**\[22:32\]** **Angie:** Right.
**\[22:32\]** **Sean:** I'm not going to hold you hostage.
**\[22:34\]** **Angie:** Yeah, exactly. I've done the same thing. And there's no ill will. It's just like, OK, for whatever reason, either you're telling me or you're not, whatever. Yeah, you want to leave. OK, cool. Here's how you access your site. Here's how you get a backup. Here's all this other information that you may need. I think that that sort of thing is completely reasonable to expect when you are.
**\[22:56\]** **Sean:** I would also add and make sure that you have access to the software licenses. So your CMS license, any plug-in licenses, I've taken over sites from other developers where my new client came in and they had nothing. They had the hosting and that's it. I needed to do work. They owned licenses, but they didn't have proof that they owned it, so they had to buy new licenses when it's time for updates and it's just make sure you get all of that. So for my own clients, what I do is I get my clients to buy the licenses themselves and then send me the license numbers this way. They control it all. There's no issue.
**\[23:43\]** **Angie:** Yeah, I mean, that's definitely one approach. I actually don't, I buy all the licenses myself and then just build them directly. But if a client decides that they want to leave and work with another developer, I tell them, look, if you ever need this information, I'm happy to give it to you or the developer, just get in touch with me, that I have no problem. In fact, it's better that way because I want to give you that information. Otherwise, for instance, an expression engine add-on license sits in my devotee account and just sits there and it's not being used, or at least I don't think it's being used. I don't know when this client has left. I'd rather be like, yeah, can I you know here's the information if you need it but because I've been in a situation where yeah I took over a site and I've had to ask the developer hey can you give me access to this or can you transfer the license sometimes I get a reply sometimes I don't just depending on who it is but I think again it just really just boils down to communication now it's not the client's job to understand how those licenses work unless you explain it to them and And they are part of that process, like in your case, but I think that as the developer who's taking over they need to be able to educate them on that and be like, look, you have these these plugins, you've got these add-ons, they have these licenses that cost money. At some point either you pay for them yourself or your developer paid for them on your behalf, so we need access to those so that you're not having to pay all over again for it. And honestly, and this is true for anybody, if you start talking in numbers like that and like money numbers and saying, look, you don't want to pay again, people's ears will perk up and be like, oh, okay, I'll go reach out to so and so.
**\[25:26\]** **Sean:** Yeah, I've been in that situation before and most times, the previous developer or agency will provide that information for you or transfer the license ownership or whatever, but a couple of times. It's not my responsibility anymore. I don't care. That's professional. Exactly. Mind-blowing. That brings us to the next point. What should I do when a relationship breaks down due to neglect in competence or other issues resulting in mutual distrust or this animosity, things like that. Is there any advice you can have for a situation to get these assets that you need if your relationships going south or what?
**\[26:27\]** **Angie:** That's a really tough question for me to answer personally just because I haven't had that scenario come up, knock on wood.
**\[26:36\]** **Sean:** Well, let's do hypothetical. I did have this recently where the relationship between me and a client dissolved. In my opinion, it was due to staff changes and personality conflict with my new contact. We ended it, it wasn't going well, and I just, I gave them the keys, everything. I just like, boom, you know, I gave everything because I don't want to, I don't want to own
**\[27:05\]** **Angie:** them.
**\[27:06\]** **Sean:** Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there are some developers that I have experienced being the new guy where an old guy wouldn't give any information at all. Right? And it's really frustrating. I had no idea how to go, how to proceed, and my client was like, I don't know.
**\[27:25\]** **Angie:** Yeah, I mean, I think I think your approach is the right one. I mean, I've definitely had situations where things weren't great, but never anything so bad where there's like, you know, animosity and just anger and whatever. Thankfully, but like I said, I think your approach was the right one in terms of, okay, this this relationship isn't going well. They're going to leave. They've told me they're leaving or looking for a new developer, whatever. And yeah, put all that information that they need in a nice neat little package and send it off to them and be like, okay, this is us breaking it clean. Here you go. Here's that info. And then that way, you're not holding anything, intentionally or not. You're not holding anything over their heads and they can't come back around and be like, see, you didn't do this or you didn't provide that. So you're just giving them what they need for the next agency.
**\[28:16\]** **Sean:** I also told them to make sure they change all the passwords that I had access to.
**\[28:20\]** **Angie:** That's a great idea.
**\[28:21\]** **Sean:** I'm deleting my records because I don't want to have it, but you should still change it just to be safe.
**\[28:29\]** **Angie:** Right. Right. Or tell them, with your next developer, here's the access, make sure that they delete my account so that, you know, I don't have access to that.
**\[28:38\]** **Sean:** Exactly. Okay. So as a developer, what do you think clients can do better to have help relationships with their agency or web developer? And we're going to also do the reverse, what can we do better to help our clients?
**\[29:00\]** **Angie:** I think the answer is the same, just speak up and just communicate. Some of the problems that I've experienced over the years was really just in this understanding a lack of communication, you know, if the client is feeling uncomfortable about something, then either I haven't made them feel comfortable or made them feel like I can reach out to me whenever, or not whenever, but at least, you know, be a different method, then that's kind of on me. But if I've given them that information, I've said, look, you can email me here, you can book a time to chat with me here, that sort of thing, then they've had that forewarning, so if they decide still to not communicate, that's kind of on then, and so they need to, and then even vice versa, right? If I'm getting frustrated with a project, then I need to be able to say, look, time out. This is how we need to work, and this is what's not working right now, that sort of thing. So it really just, in my opinion, I think this is true for wife, not just for your love to know. I think it's just a matter of communicating. And I will fully admit, I'm not the best communicator in the world, but I damn sure try.
**\[30:18\]** **Sean:** Yeah, I think that it's the key is communication and timely responses.
**\[30:23\]** **Angie:** Yeah. Oh, that's a big one. Being responsive, you know, I don't know how many times clients have literally come to me. We've started working together and they've told me at some point in the process, thank you for being responsive. The last person I talked to would take a week before I heard from them and I'd be like, that's insane. That's completely insane.
**\[30:44\]** **Sean:** I aim to respond to all of my emails within one business day. I usually do email responses at night in the morning when I sit down at my desk. Sometimes I also check email just before I leave at the end of the day, but I always respond at the beginning of the day. So any of the emails that come in during the day, the previous day, I reply back, oh, I'm on it or ask for clarification or whatever. And I also think that a lot of clients could do a little bit better in that area. Sometimes you get delays on projects because they're not doing things for adding in content or responding to questions so that you can move forward with whatever work needs to be done
**\[31:33\]** **Angie:** on the website. Yeah and that's that's part of this so so when I start a project or when I start talking to someone who's looking to potentially hire me they one of the questions that almost always comes up is how long is this going to take and the such a loaded question because it isn't just dependent on me. Yeah, I can tell you how long it's going to take me to build section A or section B, how long it's going to take to design the mockups and that sort of thing. But in between all those things requires client feedback. So how long is it going to take you for you to get back to me? That also is part of the equation of how long is this project going to take? So that's something that that also kind of, like you said, it's something that clients also need to be aware of. But at the same time, us as the people that are being hired, we need to be upfront at the beginning and be like, okay, look, this is the schedule, this is tentative because it's gonna depend on how long it takes for you to get back to me, as well as how long it takes me to build this out or design this or whatever. So again, if you're upfront and lay the groundwork, the ground rules, the expectations at the beginning of a project, then it's going to be a lot more
**\[32:48\]** **Sean:** smoother. Right, so yeah, oh, this project is going to take four weeks, but that assumes that you respond within one or two business days to request for information and answers. If it takes you a week to answer each time, well, then it could be like months before it's done, because Yeah, yeah, you know, I can't work if I don't get answers for the information that I need, right? Okay, so Actually, I kind of run out of questions Did you have any other thoughts or maybe articles that you think would be helpful?
**\[33:28\]** **Angie:** Articles I don't I mean I read articles all the time So I feel like I read them and then I process them and then I forget about them But I don't know this whole like client designer client developer relationship is it's like any right It's it's tricky and and as long as you're communicating. I think it could work really well I mean, I've got clients that I've had for a Long time like years And then I've got client I've had clients who stick around for a year and then they're off doing the next thing and that's fine I mean, everybody's gonna do what they wanna do, right? And that's, there's nothing wrong with that. But like what we've been talking about, what I've kind of been harping on is just communicate, just be honest and be like, look, this is great. I mean, it's not just about communicating the negative stuff, right? Also communicate the good stuff, you know, because a developer doesn't always wanna hear just what they're doing, you know, how they can improve or anything. They also wanna hear what they're doing well, Just like anybody, like, I don't know. It's just, I think it's just, you know, the golden rule, the golden rule applies here. I don't know. Yeah, it's just like everybody wants praise. But I mean, just, you know, treat your clients with respect because they deserve it, everybody deserves it. I mean, I worked with someone who I actually hired for a project and they made a comment about the client And I was like, well, that's uncalled for. First of all, you're not working with the client directly. And secondly, why would you bite the hand that feeds you? At the end of the day, clients, the work that they provide us help us live.
**\[35:11\]** **Sean:** So your contractor was bad-mouthing your client.
**\[35:18\]** **Angie:** A little bit, yeah. It wasn't anything terrible, but it was like, you need to pump the brakes there, buddy.
**\[35:23\]** **Sean:** Yeah, that seems a little bit, a little bit wrong. Yeah. I mean, I don't know details, but yeah. Yeah, that would be kind of uncomfortable.
**\[35:33\]** **Angie:** Honestly, I think that this contractor was just, he was getting burnt out or something, which I've come close. So you start to feel negative about work in general, but still, you know.
**\[35:46\]** **Sean:** Well, everybody has bad days or weeks that happens from time to time.
**\[35:50\]** **Angie:** Believe me, there have been days where I'm just like, not in the mood to work, but I've got a deadline to meet or something, and I read an email and I just want to, you know, throw my blop top out the window, but I don't, I step away, and I just, I figure out somehow, some way to just take a chill pill and then respond when I'm in a better mood, because responding when you're angry is the worst thing you can do, and God knows I'm guilty of that, so yeah.
**\[36:19\]** **Sean:** Well, we've all been there. So Angie, thank you so much for coming out today and recording with me. Can you tell listeners where they can find you online, social media, your website?
**\[36:31\]** **Angie:** Yeah. So my website is block81.com. And I'm also on Twitter is just Angie Herrera. I've got one for my studio too, but I rarely put anything there. Yeah, I mean, those are two places. I think Instagram, like my business Instagram, is a good place to let's block anyone underscore PDX. Yeah, so there are three places.
**\[36:58\]** **Sean:** We'll include links to all of those in the show notes.
**\[37:02\]** **Angie:** Yeah, and I know you mentioned that I post stuff on LinkedIn from time to time that you enjoy. So LinkedIn is a good one.
**\[37:09\]** **Sean:** Yes, Angie has at least once a week, she posts these short little nuggets of advice that I think are really good for clients. I don't have an example offhand, but go check her profile, follow her, she'll give you some good advice.
**\[37:24\]** **Angie:** I appreciate that.
**\[37:25\]** **Sean:** All right, thank you so much.
**\[37:27\]** **Angie:** Yeah, thank you, Sean.
**\[37:30\]** **Sean:** Thank you for listening. Hope you enjoyed this show. I'm Sean Smith, your co-host. You can find me at my company website, cappingcreations.ca. On Twitter at C-A-F-E-I-N-E-C-R-E-E-E-8-I-O-N, on LinkedIn, and my username is caffeine creations or you can search for Sean Smith based in Toronto. You should be able to find me there. And I'm Mike Mela. You can find me at my website blikewater.ca or on LinkedIn. My username is Mike Mela. That's M-I-K-E-M-E-L-L-A and I'm on twitter twitter.com slash Mike Mela. And don't forget to subscribe to the show and share it with your friends on social media such as Facebook or LinkedIn, you can find us on Google Play, iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you subscribe to your favorite podcasts. And we're always looking for a topic and guest suggestions, so if you have any, hit us up at website 101podcast.com slash contact. Excellent. Thank you so much for listening. Thanks for listening.
Close Transcript
Have a question for Sean, Mike, and Amanda? [Send us an email](/contact).
[](https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly93ZWJzaXRlMTAxcG9kY2FzdC5jb20vZmVlZC5yc3M%3D)[](https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/website-101-podcast/id1449510012)[](https://open.spotify.com/show/3rmSM1R9t6q1U8DmYWJRSO?si=NrYPMgDaRV6Dd56PjEaPow)### Season 02
- 1 [ Season 2 Introduction](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-02/episode-1/season-2-introduction/)
- 2 [ Web Hosting 101](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-02/episode-2/web-hosting-101/)
- 3 [ How to Choose a Web Developer or Agency](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-02/episode-3/how-to-choose-a-web-developer-or-agency/)
- 4 [ How Much Does a Website Cost](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-02/episode-4/how-much-does-a-website-cost/)
- 5 [ Web Jargon Part One](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-02/episode-5/web-jargon-part-one/)
- 6 [ Web Jargon Part Two](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-02/episode-6/web-jargon-part-two/)
- 7 [ Website 101: MVP Strategy for Effective Web Development](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-02/episode-7/minimal-viable-product/)
- 8 [ Copy Editing and Copy Writing](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-02/episode-8/copy-editing-and-copy-writing/)
- 9 [ Photography and Stock Photos](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-02/episode-9/photography-and-stock-photos/)
- 10 [ Ecommerce with Shopify](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-02/episode-10/ecommerce-with-shopify/)
- 11 [ Season 2 Recap and Season 3 Teaser](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-02/episode-11/season-2-recap-and-season-3-teaser/)
### All Seasons
- [Season 01](https://website101podcast.com/season/01/)
- [Season 02](https://website101podcast.com/season/02/)
- [Season 03](https://website101podcast.com/season/03/)
- [Season 04](https://website101podcast.com/season/04/)
- [Season 05](https://website101podcast.com/season/05/)
- [Season 06](https://website101podcast.com/season/06/)
- [Season 07](https://website101podcast.com/season/07/)
- [Season 08](https://website101podcast.com/season/08/)
- [Season 09](https://website101podcast.com/season/09/)
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