---
title: Content Marketing
date: 2021-03-16T05:00:00-04:00
author: Sean Smith
canonical_url: "https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-04/episode-7/content-marketing/"
section: Podcast
---
<!\[CDATA\[YII-BLOCK-BODY-BEGIN\]\]>[Skip to main content](#main-content)Guest Guarav S. Iyer
Gaurav S. Iyer is a Senior Consultant at The Capital Communications Company, a boutique agency which develops and implements strategic and creative solutions for some of North America's leading corporations.
Season 04 Episode 7 – Mar 16, 2021
38:39 [Show Notes](#show-notes)
## Content Marketing
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[](//dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/website101podcast.com/uploads/mp3/season-04/S04-E07-content-marketing.mp3)
In this episode Mike and Sean talk with returning guest Gaurav about content marketing; what it is, why it's important, and how to do it.
### Show Notes
Gaurav starts off by defining what content marketing is and why it's important. Later we discuss the similarities and differences between content marketing and advertising.
- Funnels
- Advertising vs content marketing
- SEO
- Long tail keywords
- Newsletter and blog
- Social Media & content marketing
### Show Links
- [S02 E08 Copy Editing and Copy Writing](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-02/episode-8/copy-editing-and-copy-writing/)
- [Jonathon Stark](https://jonathanstark.com/)
Powered Transcript Accuracy of transcript is dependant on AI technology.
**\[00:00\]** **Sean:** Hello, welcome to the website one-on-one podcast. I'm Sean Smith, your co-host, and with me every time is Mike Mella. Hello, Sean. Hey, Mike. And today we're going to be talking about content writing with returning guest, friend of the show, Gorov S.I.R.
**\[00:22\]** **Mike:** I like the way that sounds. Thanks, Sean.
**\[00:25\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** Thanks, Mike. Yeah. Good to have you back. Gorov. Right, content marketing. That's right. Yeah, here we go.
**\[00:32\]** **Sean:** So Gorov was back with us in season two, episode eight, talking about copy editing and copywriting, which was a really good episode. And we'll link to that in the show notes. Be sure to check it out.
**\[00:44\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** Yeah, Gorov, you're our first return guest on this podcast that's been on twice.
**\[00:49\]** **Mike:** Sean mentioned that to me. It's an honor, guys. Thanks a lot.
**\[00:53\]** **Sean:** We actually have another returning guest. We're recording with her next week. So Angie Herrera will be back.
**\[00:59\]** **Mike:** Okay, so now I don't want it.
**\[01:02\]** **Sean:** No, no, but you're first. You're first. That's the important thing.
**\[01:07\]** **Mike:** All right, I'll take it. Thanks for having me on, guys.
**\[01:09\]** **Sean:** So Gora, could you help us out by telling us what exactly is content marketing?
**\[01:16\]** **Mike:** Sure. Content marketing is essentially anything that could be construed as, you know, a piece of content unto itself. So if we're talking about an article or we're talking about a blog or a video, a podcast, all of those things are something that a user would come to because they want to consume it specifically. Like it's not interrupting their day in any way.
They've come there to consume that piece of content and yet that piece of content is driven to drives, it's meant to drive sales. So it is supposed to attract an audience by itself because it is content in the same way that a TV show is content. It's supposed to be of interest to the audience, but once they come there, it's done in such a way that ultimately at the end, they'll go away with a good impression of your brand and hopefully that down the road that'll lead to sales.
**\[02:14\]** **Sean:** Well, that is actually really interesting because that's kind of why I started the podcast initially is to add content to my site. I actually haven't got any sales from it yet, but I have gotten a couple of inquiries and emails from people, which is great. And honestly, the main goal is about having some fun and helping people.
**\[02:40\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** Yeah, so it's different than from just promoting a website in general, I guess, is that the idea? Like it's sort of more, I don't know, drilled down than that, more focused than promoting an entire website? Would that be accurate?
**\[02:55\]** **Mike:** Yeah, even without knowing it, everyone lives in a content marketing world, right? So Sean, there's some instinct that you had there when you started up this podcast, I guess, which was when people are coming to my site, I want to be able to differentiate myself a little bit from everyone else by having, delivering some value to prospective clients. Without even, you know, maybe it doesn't convert to a sale instantly, but what it does maybe is defend your business and your expertise a little bit. Yeah, it adds to your authority.
It adds to your authority, credibility. People get to understand who you are a little bit better, get to understand what you do, what your knowledge base is. Just from hearing you talk to Mike and then you talk to me, and that's somehow going to give them a better sense of, okay, I can trust this guy. I understand what he does, and I know a little bit more about him, whereas if they were just coming to do a credibility check and all they see is a website, but with absolutely content, that's a little less authoritative.
And that's sort of the baseline for a lot of businesses in 2021, is that you have to establish trust through, by going that extra step now and delivering content. Okay. And those emails that you generated, I mean, that's a lead generation, right? So even if it instantly doesn't convert to a sale, it's given you, so broadening your network and giving you some leads.
Awesome.
**\[04:16\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** All right. So one of the terms that I've heard about in the context of content marketing sometimes is a funnel. Could you tell us sort of what a funnel is in this context?
**\[04:26\]** **Mike:** Sure. Yeah. A funnel is both one of the, it's a marketing term and it's a business term and what it applies to is your process for getting a particular sale. So if you imagine a funnel when you're pouring something into a bottle of water, at the top of the funnel, it's going to be broader.
And the idea there is that you're touching a broader audience, and so you can think of the width of the funnel as being related to the breadth of your audience. And at the top with content marketing, you're touching probably more people than you would with a very focused, practical sales cycle, which is closer to the bottom. And the reason for that is that you can sort of weed out people with content marketing. You can see who's interested.
And once they've read that content, they said, okay, this is for me. They can make an informed decision and seek to follow up with you. And so it acts as an automatic filter that brings in stronger leads into your business. And that's as they go down the funnel, you now have this assurance of, okay, I'm not wasting time by following up in person with this lead because they've already expressed interest and they know enough about me for it to have been an informed decision.
**\[05:38\]** **Sean:** So it's kind of like pre-filtering or pre-sales without actually having the interaction?
**\[05:46\]** **Mike:** Yeah, you know, that's right. It adds another filter to your business just so that you're being as productive as you possibly can, right? You're not chasing a bunch of cold
**\[05:57\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** leads. Yeah, and I noticed that in, if you look at Google Analytics of a website, There is an option in there that has something to do with funnels, and it's the same sort of description you just gave where it starts off with Basically everyone who enters your site But then as they travel through your site some of them go into this page and then a Fraction of those people will go follow in to this other page and it sort of lets you know where you're you're more I don't know devoted I guess visitors are Ending up because they're drilling right through to that final page, right?
**\[06:31\]** **Mike:** something similar to that. Yeah, and Google Analytics is invaluable for looking at those metrics and positioning your CTAs, positioning your ads on your page, because if you get to see, okay, the most devoted of my following end up on this page and they're getting about halfway down the page, then you probably want to have a button at that point that says, you know, convert or
**\[06:54\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** do something. Do something. Contact me. Right. Do what I want you to do at this point.
**\[07:01\]** **Sean:** Let them do it at that point. Yeah, exactly. All right, well, really interesting. So content marketing feels very similar to advertising, but I realize that it's not. How is it different? And can you maybe provide an example? I know this is a little bit off the cuff, but maybe it can give an example.
**\[07:20\]** **Mike:** Sure. Let me just start with a brief description of the differences because, or maybe it makes more sense to start with the similarities because there are similarities that you pointed out. But both content marketing and advertising aim to sell something, right? So let's just start there.
They both require carefully chosen words to get through, you know, from essentially from your brain or from your brain into the brain of a reader and convince them of something. So they both want to do that. And both are in the attention business, which is that they have to grip your attention in some way. But this is the crucial difference.
How they gain your attention is entirely different, right? Those are two different worlds then. Television commercials, billboards, subway posters, even YouTube ads, they're all interrupting the thing that you want to be doing that you actually came for in order to grab your attention. And that's what advertising is, right?
It cuts into your experience to try and sell you something. But we now live in a very different world where we have more media than ever and we have constant access to it because we're always carrying around these devices and 24 or 7, we're constantly consuming media and it's just harder to get people's attention in that world. So bombarding them with ads is not enough anymore. It can do something.
It can get your brand in their head and there's some familiarity for it but it may not be enough to... Advertising's more about building awareness building awareness making sure that people sort of have that sense of Oh, I've heard of them before and maybe 25 years ago That was enough to get someone to say oh, I've heard of them before. That's enough That means that they must be good and then they'll buy your product But with more media than ever It's harder to generate trust and if it's harder to generate trust and loyalty in a brand Then you have to generate that through content that's interesting by itself and it needs to draw them in because the content is interesting
**\[09:20\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** Okay, so is it would it be accurate to say that content marketing as opposed to other forms is more Helping people I mean this sounds a little bit, you know blue sky But it sounds like it might be more helping people accomplish things they they want to accomplish rather than Trying to convince them to do things. Would that be fair? Well, I like that question
**\[09:42\]** **Mike:** Yeah without being too hokey. It is really about delivering value, right because people have higher BS radars than they did before. They're just more sensitive to the idea that they're being sold to directly. So if you're looking for a US for an example, Sean, so let's say you're looking to buy a watch, right?
And maybe the reason is that you saw one that you really liked on Instagram or you saw it in a magazine, but let's stick with Instagram. You clicked on it and now watch ads are just following you around the internet, right? It's happened to me. Yeah, that's advertising company is trying to sear it's a brand name into your brain through the sheer power of repetitive viewing.
But you're not just going to go buy the watch without doing any of your
**\[10:28\]** **Sean:** own additional research. At least most people won't anymore. Well, exactly. So I want to interrupt for just a second here is last weekend my nine-year-old computer died.
I just died. I'm pretty sure the power supply died. And I was planning on rebuilding it. I like to build my own PCs and I already had ideas of what parts I wanted.
Well, I had to rush around and figure everything out, but I gotta say, my Facebook feed and my Twitter feed are now filled with advertising from Corsair and Nvidia and all of these other computer parts. So it's obviously doing something. They've they've tracked me with Google and they're spinning out ads everywhere at me. Yeah.
But I did my research and chose my parts based on what I know about the technology, not about the advertising.
**\[11:17\]** **Mike:** Right. And I'm sure at one point whether it was now or before, even though the names, Corsair and video will be familiar to you, you'll have done it at the bare minimum as a Google search. Oh, yeah, absolutely. 100%.
And what's coming up when you do a Google search, it's going to be content, right? It's going to be an article that you're going to read. It's going to be a YouTube video that you're going to click on. And even if it's from the company, it will inform you about the product and it has to be driven by value and incidentally inspire you to make a sale.
That cannot be the primary focus of content marketing because if it is, people sniff it out and it erodes your credibility actually. So it's counterproductive to try and pursue a sale in content marketing. You really want to deliver value.
**\[12:04\]** **Sean:** Your content marketing is more about giving people what they want and not asking for anything in return.
**\[12:11\]** **Mike:** Yeah. That's right. It's a giveaway. It's the cost of doing business in 2021.
**\[12:18\]** **Sean:** Yeah. That sounds a lot like something that Jonathan Stark would say is you give away content and it draws in your customers and clientele.
**\[12:27\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** I have had that happen before where I find some web developer online or whatever who's offering a course for free and it actually does increase my or improve my view of that developer as a person like I think, oh, but he's what a cool guy he's offering this for free. That's great. We're like free plug-ins sometimes for CMSs, things like that. And it really does affect his brand positively for me anyways.
**\[12:53\]** **Sean:** Absolutely. I'm with Mike. As soon as Mike talked about that, I was immediately thinking about West Boss.
**\[12:59\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** Yeah. He's the popular one, I guess, he's got tons and tons of content.
**\[13:03\]** **Sean:** He has both free and paid courses and he runs a podcast with another online and web instructor. They give away tons of content. They clearly know what they're doing and I've given them money and I'll give them money
**\[13:16\]** **Mike:** again.
**\[13:17\]** **Sean:** It's what it's working.
**\[13:19\]** **Mike:** So he took you from the top of the funnel all the way to the bottom.
**\[13:22\]** **Sean:** That's right. Pretty much. Multiple times. It's like I'm at a ride at Disneyland or something. Hi, would you like to be a guest on the show? We'd like to talk with website owners about what you like and what you don't like about the CMS you're using. Is updating your website easy to do?
**\[13:44\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** Are the features you wish you had available? We'd love to hear from users of any CMS, WordPress, Squarespace, Wix, or any other system. Recordings are done virtually, so all you need is a computer and a microphone. Get in touch with us at website 101podcast.com, slash contact. All right, so we alluded to earlier search engines, and you mentioned you like Google Analytics for this purpose. What can you tell us about writing for SEO, search engine optimization, and how that pertains to content marketing for you?
**\[14:16\]** **Mike:** Sure, there's probably more than we could cover in a single podcast on SEO. So I'll just focus on that.
**\[14:22\]** **Sean:** Time to bring it back for a third episode.
**\[14:24\]** **Mike:** Sure, yeah, happy to. But SEO, I mean, there are people who are just full out SEO experts in the world. So I wouldn't presume to have that knowledge. But, you know, I've built a few different media properties in the past and the way that we focused on distribution was through SEO, so NSEM.
So I got some sense of how it works. And really, it's all about something called long tail keywords, right? That's the magic, magic word in SEO is long tail keywords because imagine if you have, let's say microphones, I'm just picking what's in front of me right now, but let's say you wanted to sell a microphone. If you tried to plug the word, I think people are familiar with keywords like putting it in your content so that Google will pick up, okay, this is an article about microphones and we'll rank it highly if someone is searching microphones.
And maybe Maybe microphones is the most searched keyword in that niche subject matter. But if you try and go for the most popular keyword, everyone else is doing the same thing. And so it's what's called a high traffic keyword, but it's also a high competition keyword. Right.
**\[15:37\]** **Sean:** You're going to get lost in the sea of content.
**\[15:39\]** **Mike:** You're going to get lost in the sea of content. That's right. And so the trick is to try and find something more specific. maybe it's podcast microphones, maybe it's amateur podcast microphones, maybe you find words to pair with your main keyword, such that you're getting more and more specific, and perhaps that reduces the amount of traffic that's flowing to that keyword, but there's also less competition.
And so where you can find the perfect balance of traffic versus competition and build your niche expertise in that area, Google will, if you're putting out content consistently in that niche, Google increase your ranking and wait you against your peers in that area. And pretty soon, when someone is searching that very specific keyword, maybe you're not getting as much as you would get if you just put microphone, but they're going to be stronger leads, you're going to be higher ranked against your competition, and whoever's coming into that is going to be the person that you're actually trying to get to at the end of the day. Right.
**\[16:41\]** **Sean:** Okay. Basically, what you're saying is by niching down and narrowing your audience or target, you will get less leads, but you're going to get more qualified leads, or people who are more likely to go with your service or business.
**\[16:59\]** **Mike:** Yes, that's exactly right. The only reason it's called a long-tailed keyword, it's a sort of nerdy stat term, where if you look at a probability distribution, the thin part all the way at the right end, or at the left end for that matter is going to be, it's called a tail. And so the tails are thinner, but they're more valuable.
**\[17:20\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** Yeah, and the more you know about your own audience, I suppose, the more you can leverage this kind of thing because you'd have to know, you know, if going back to your example, if you're a microphone producer, you'd have to know that part of your audience is searching for that particular long tail keyword, right? That podcast, microphones, or whatever. You'd have to know that you have a segment of your audience that makes podcasts and they need microphones or something like that.
**\[17:44\]** **Mike:** Yeah, that's a great point, Mike. There, you know, it doesn't matter if it's 2021 or, you know, 14, 21, knowing your audience when you're selling something is irreplaceable.
**\[17:54\]** **Sean:** Right, right. And you definitely need to write your copy or hire a professional copywriter to reflect that. Cough, cough. Yeah, yes, Cora does that too.
So I have some experience in this, been running my own business full time for 10 years now. And when I first started out, I wrote very generic copy. Hey, I'm a Toronto web developer, blah, blah, blah. I don't get very much.
And then over time, I started niching it down and being very specific. I focus on, at that time was expression engine. Now I focus on craft CMS. And there's some other things.
but I really do get more and better quality leads from this. I did this with, based on some podcasts that I listen to for business. So basically my personal experience reflects that. And I have a friend in Calgary, he's a copywriter and he helped me out with some of my copy.
And I think it made a big difference. Even though I used to teach writing, He does it full-time professionally, right?
**\[19:06\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** Yeah, I'm sure we'd all agree on this call that getting a professional to help you write your content is pretty invaluable, no matter how well you know your business. You don't necessarily know how to present it on the web, you know, that kind of thing, right?
**\[19:19\]** **Sean:** Yeah, but not everybody is willing to spend the money on a professional writer. I mean, you may not have it, you may not personally see the value, but I can say that my buddy Falling tear to help me out, I didn't ask. And it made a difference. I could just see the quality of the words were much better than what I had written myself.
**\[19:41\]** **Mike:** Nice. Yeah, I mean, I definitely agree that it's always best to hire a professional. If you're in a very entrepreneurial situation, maybe, you know, if you can call in a favor from a buddy, that's the perfect situation, but it's not lucky. Yeah, but in general, yeah, there's no replacement for expertise, there isn't.
**\[20:02\]** **Sean:** So, Gore, what about a newsletter? So, you know, I've mentioned Jonathan Stark a couple of times. He says that newsletters are the greatest way to do content marketing. Now, I don't know if that's true, but that's what he says, and I respect him. So, I mean, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. Do you agree, disagree, or partially agree, what?
**\[20:24\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** And just before you answer it, a newsletter is one example of a feature that our audience to this podcast could very easily do. Anyone who is running their own website, even if they don't have a dedicated web team, could set up a newsletter in MailChimp or something and send something at once in a while. So yeah, this is gonna be interesting.
**\[20:45\]** **Sean:** Oh yeah, it's definitely something very actionable for DIY guy.
**\[20:49\]** **Mike:** Yeah, and I just wanna point out, I don't know about you, Mike, but if you mentioned MailChimp, part of that may be due to their advertising campaigns, which are on every podcast ever. It's true. Yes, they sure are. So I'd be advertising is it's not a silver bullet anymore. Like it used to be perhaps 20 and 30 years ago, but it's clearly still somewhat effective. That's true. But yes, newsletters are I do agree that they're probably the best form of content marketing. My only caveat is that I would say it's a newsletter plus an online blog. Yes.
**\[21:23\]** **Sean:** Can you can you clarify that are they connected or you are using the same content in both yes to me
**\[21:31\]** **Mike:** They go hand in hand, right that your your blog on your website or if it's an article hub page whatever it is If it's the home of all your content then the newsletters how you get it out there So you need a place to sort of host it and then you need the newsletter to be able to push it out and and get it in front of people's eyes. And to me, the email inbox is still the best venue, actually, for content. Even if it's long-form content, to me, the email inbox is still the primary location. And it makes me sound really old when I say that, because everyone wants to hop on the social media bandwagon.
But the truth is, click-through rates for social media are incredibly low. So if you're posting a piece of content on social media and you get a 10% click-through rate. You are, I mean, pack your bags, go buy a villa somewhere in a tropical country because obviously you're gonna be incredibly successful. But if you're, you know, and that's the barometer for social media, 10% would be like through the roof.
But if you're in email, 10% low, at 10% you should be worried because the truth is more people will click on an email when they get it because it's personalized. it feels more intimate. It's in their world, right? Sort of when someone comes to your house, you just feel a little more comfortable, right?
This is your space. But if you're in social media, you're out there in the wilderness, someone bumps into you at a coffee shop, you know, it's fine and it's good, but it's not as comfortable as if you were at home.
**\[23:07\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** That's a really good analogy, and I've really thought about that. It does feel, because I'm still a fan of email very much, if only because it lets me manage my time. I could read it now, I could read it later, it's up to me, it's still gonna be there, that kind of thing. But yeah, you're right, it does feel more intimate when you're reading in that, in an email context than just anywhere on the web, makes sense.
**\[23:32\]** **Sean:** I wanna follow up with what you were talking about there. You said that the content should be on both your blog and your newsletter. Do you, what do you think about doing something like a summary in the newsletter that links to the blog article? or do you feel that it should be full content equally? Or maybe the blog has some content that's not in the newsletter and vice versa?
**\[23:56\]** **Mike:** I actually love the idea of some reason and email newsletter, and then giving some of the option to go deeper. So like I said, the blog is really just a content hub. If no one is coming to your website and then clicking on the blog button and going there, to me that would never bother me. Because the newsletter is the point of interest, right? It's the point of distribution. and they're opening it, maybe they get a bolded header, right? And then a few lines of description as to what that article's all about. And it can be satisfying. It's a little appetizer if they want the entry.
**\[24:30\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** Come the link, right? So I have an example about this. I have a nine-year-old kid. And when he was born, I signed up for a newsletter called Baby Center, a website called Baby Center.
And they send a newsletter every month or something like that, with just like one paragraph of like, they know how old he is, because based on when I signed up, so like it would be specific to his age, you would say something like, you know, instilling confidence in a nine-year-old to whatever, in a little paragraph, and you can click through to read more, and it's free stuff, and it's really valuable content, and it's owned by Johnson and Johnson. So which is an enormous company that sells products for kids, for parents, or whatever,
**\[25:16\]** **Sean:** right? They are not sponsoring us. No, they're not. They can if they like to.
**\[25:20\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** They're welcome to reach out. Yeah. I love Johnson Joe. Anyway. Yeah, so I guess that would be a good example of their offering this service that's specific to parenting needs, but it doesn't sort of chill baby shampoo every day kind of thing. Would that be accurate?
**\[25:36\]** **Mike:** That is the perfect example of content marketing there. They weren't trying to sell you upfront. They just put out this content because they knew that there's a target market. They know that there's a large enough market of people who have this particular paid point. They know that they have the content and the expertise to be able to help those people out. So let's just give it to them and we engender some goodwill that way.
**\[26:00\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** Yeah. Right. Okay. So moving on here, you did mention social media and how it's maybe not all it's cracked up to be sometimes. So how do you feel the social media fits into content marketing? If one of our listeners wanted to pursue this kind of, you know, field and they do have social media platforms for their business, what can they do?
**\[26:23\]** **Mike:** What should they do? Well, social media is interesting because it's a great tool for brand building. you can really get, once again, in the same way that advertising can create an understanding of what your brand is just through look and feel and a few well chosen words. Social media can do the same and it can be helpful as a distribution venue for content. It can. I'm not optimistic about the click-through rates, but at volume, like if you have actually a lot of time and you have a large enough audience, social media can be incredibly powerful.
**\[27:00\]** **Sean:** Sounds to me like that might be something that's best suited to like a large company that can have a dedicated social media person on staff. Like a small business with you know one to ten employees may not have enough staff to be able to properly monitor their social media channels.
**\[27:19\]** **Mike:** Yeah, unless you ever really talented social media person, right? Even in the one-to-ten group, if there's someone who really understands the dynamics of social media, who can stay on top of what trending material is available to them and somehow position the brand so that it's building a character that an audience can grip to online, right? Like there's a, you know, I used, Well, I'm a business writer, but I even came sort of from the financial journalism world. Typically, the only people that I followed were other journalists, but eventually some content marketing people slipped into that bubble.
And it's very strange how they did it. There was like a company called Ram Capital, for instance. And Ram Capital's their logo is just, you know, someone in a wheelchair. And it's supposed to be that it's a ramp up for your capital, for your money.
And it was one of the sassiest accounts on Twitter in the little like finance Twitter bubble. And it's, they clearly have a business. This is not a journalist, right? They have a business.
This is a, this is content marketing that they're putting out there in all just sassy
**\[28:33\]** **Sean:** tweets about finance news. So they've got their voice and market narrowed down and nailed perfectly
**\[28:40\]** **Mike:** nailed. And the only reason that I still know that brand, I have never encountered them anywhere else on the internet. Never heard about them through anyone else. I know them singularly through that Twitter account. And that's just speaks to the talent of whoever's running that social media account is that they just knew what to say at all points to be interesting. Because even social media like content marketing, like advertising exists in the attention economy. And if you can get attention, and that's really what it's about.
**\[29:12\]** **Sean:** Awesome. So staying on topic of social media, everybody knows Twitter and Facebook. Is there any particular social media that you should focus on, or maybe it should be something that's niche-specific to your industry, or is like, hey, TikTok is the new hot thing. Could I hop on the bandwagon and set up a TikTok account because all the cool kids are doing it? What are your thoughts on jumping onto the latest or should I only focus on the biggest?
**\[29:52\]** **Mike:** In a nutshell, I would probably say, go where your audience is. If you are trying to target teenagers who like to dance, I guess TikTok makes sense. For a lot of B2C consumer brands, especially your targeting, not my generation, but the one that's younger than us, yeah, the one behind us. Yeah, TikTok makes a lot of sense because you're going to get eyeballs.
The B2C marketing movement on Instagram is actually incredibly powerful, right? So if you're selling apparel, or if you're selling any sort of end consumer good, and you go on Instagram, those ads, I will say this. You know, the caveat to Twitter and Facebook and all the rest of them, Instagram click-through rates for their ads are actually pretty impressive.
**\[30:40\]** **Sean:** Wow.
**\[30:41\]** **Mike:** Yeah. And I don't know what it is about the, I have some idea. It's not my focus or my niche, but sometimes you get those full-size images and they're just so compelling some of them and they're so well-targeted that people end up actually buying stuff on Instagram. It's incredible, actually, if they're success.
**\[31:01\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** Wow, that is fascinating. I think I have actually purchased things, like you said, a pair of clothing based on ads I've seen on Instagram. You sometimes see, I don't go to Instagram these days anymore, but I can remember I'm pretty sure seeing these videos, there are very short video clips that are super fast, like they're sped up of like a pair of shoes that are waterproof or something, and they show some guy running through a puddle, and then he rings his shoes out, like it's a rag whatever, and it's just really compelling to look at. And he's like, oh, man, maybe I need those shoes.
Maybe I need waterproof shoes. I've never, I've never purchased waterproof
**\[31:38\]** **Sean:** shoes. I've just used an example. Mike wants to let out his inner five-year-old and run
**\[31:42\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** through all the puddles. Were those the all-birds? Yes, it was all-birds. And there you go. I know the brand too. I've never bought them. They do look cool, but I've never bought them, but
**\[31:53\]** **Sean:** I know exactly what the brand name is. Yeah. Yeah, something similar. I see ads on Facebook a lot, and at least three times I've clicked through the ad, started filling in the order form, and then stopped. I got so close to doing the impulse buy. I was like, do I really need this? No, but I want it. Credit card says, no, stop.
**\[32:19\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** I got so close that they just lost it. Somewhere on that company, there's somebody whose job it is to figure out why you didn't complete that form. Some guy keeps going to this form and partially feeling it and then he leaves.
**\[32:32\]** **Sean:** Get him. And I actually hit the same ad like there's one ad, I can't remember the product. I remember going to the form on three different occasions in two weeks and bailing at the last second because it was like I really want it because I think it's cool but I don't need
**\[32:50\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** it.
**\[32:51\]** **Sean:** Yeah, you're driving them crazy probably. So Gorov, do you have any final tips for copywriters or DIY people who need to improve their copy, but maybe they can't afford to hire somebody right now?
**\[33:07\]** **Mike:** Yeah, absolutely. Before I do, I just want to say this is probably me being a little facetious, but although Instagram ads work really well, I would argue all of Instagram or most of Instagram is content marketing. Like everyone on Instagram refers to themselves as a brand. Yeah.
**\[33:24\]** **Sean:** I don't. do you use it? Yeah, I post all my photography there. Well, but in a way, that's your photography brand, right? Sort of. Yeah, I guess so, but I'm not actually... Yeah, me, I'll take it.
**\[33:39\]** **Mike:** It's the first real social media where people weren't going on their Facebook to connect with their long-lost cousins or whatever, but they were going on their consciously to build an identity around themselves and whether they're selling vitamin supplements or apparel or whatever it is, they're building a brand and if they get a large enough following, there's an awareness that if they have a large enough following, they can convert that into sales. And so it's an interesting social media. It's why I don't spend a ton of time on it, to be honest, because I look at it through that perspective, whereas Twitter to me is as much of a dumpster fire as it is, there's other stuff on Twitter. There's just like people just, you know, commenting stuff.
**\[34:25\]** **Sean:** I think Twitter is fine if you stay within a particular niche. Like the Twitter that I'm on, it's all web developers and some photographers. I don't get all the dumpster fire stuff because I don't see it. I don't follow it. It doesn't show up.
**\[34:42\]** **Mike:** There are a few things, which is, especially if people come from the world of advertising, just some stuff to keep in mind about content marketing as you're writing it. The first would be to embrace the fact that you are a publisher, right? Everyone is media. Everyone can start a blog and write something and be a publisher unto themselves.
So start there, and then if you're thinking, okay, well, what do I write about? You want to be insightful, you want to be original, you definitely don't want to just look at 15 other blogs out there and say, I'm going to copy what they're doing. That's not valuable, right? And so you want to really do what's of value to your audience by understanding what their needs are, what their pain points are.
And if you have an answer, right, that they would come to you and you have the reluctance to give away the store for free. Don't give away the whole store, but give some of it away for free because it's the way that you'll engender trust and build a relationship with that audience.
**\[35:44\]** **Sean:** You build goodwill and you generate your authority and expertise and never thought for you.
**\[35:51\]** **Mike:** Yes. Another one would be to speak human, don't get a chip on your shoulder about trying to sound authoritative, let the expertise speak for itself, and just speaking, like you were sitting across a breakfast table from someone and trying to get them to understand what you're talking about. It's don't have to make things sound official in any way. And don't recycle too much content.
Try and put out original content whenever possible. And feed it into your newsletter and get it out there and get it out through your social media. That's fine. Like push it out through as many channels as possible.
But try not to recycle as much as possible. And you know, show as much as you can rather than just telling, right? Don't philosophize too much like show them a real solution, show them a real answer to something. And that's always going to be helpful.
**\[36:43\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** Nice. Yeah, that's really interesting. I think I've learned a lot from this episode that I can put into my own business, which is my favorite kind of episode.
**\[36:51\]** **Sean:** Yeah, me too. And one thing I've learned is it's time to revive my newsletter. That's right. I did one newsletter in November or December and that was the first one in over your, I need to get back on it.
**\[37:05\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** Yeah, me too. Me too. Well, Gorov, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been so great. I know everyone found a lot of helpful material here. And we hope you come back again sometime.
**\[37:17\]** **Sean:** So Gorov, can you tell us where people can find you online?
**\[37:19\]** **Mike:** Sure, yeah. On Twitter, you can find me at written by Gorov. But really, capitalcommunications.ca. That's the agency of which I work. a senior consultant there, that's, I mean, I should be more active online, shouldn't I? Just saying that out loud makes me realize, well, my online presence is a little thin. I'm not that active either, and I make websites for a living zone.
**\[37:45\]** **Sean:** All right. Well, thank you so much for coming out today, Grav, and we'll definitely need to bring you back for another episode in the future. All right. Thanks.
**\[37:54\]** **Mike:** It was a pleasure, guys. Thanks so much.
**\[37:56\]** **Sean:** The website 101 podcast is hosted by me, Sean Smith. You can find me on LinkedIn. My username is caffeine creations or on Twitter where my username is caffeine creation. C-A-F-E-I-M-E-C-R-E-E-8-I-O-M or at my website caffeine creations.ca
**\[38:21\]** **SPEAKER\_00:** And by me, Mike Mella, you can reach me online at belegwater.ca and also on Twitter and LinkedIn, where my username is Mike Mella. That's M-I-K-E-M-E-L-L-A.
Close Transcript
Have a question for Sean, Mike, and Amanda? [Send us an email](/contact).
[](https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly93ZWJzaXRlMTAxcG9kY2FzdC5jb20vZmVlZC5yc3M%3D)[](https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/website-101-podcast/id1449510012)[](https://open.spotify.com/show/3rmSM1R9t6q1U8DmYWJRSO?si=NrYPMgDaRV6Dd56PjEaPow)### Season 04
- 1 [ 'Click Here' Hurts Your SEO and UX: Why It's Time to Change](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-04/episode-1/click-here/)
- 2 [ How to Talk to Your Web Developer: Communication Tips for Clients](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-04/episode-2/how-to-talk-to-your-web-developer/)
- 3 [ Red Flags](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-04/episode-3/red-flags/)
- 4 [ Content Strategy](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-04/episode-4/content-strategy/)
- 5 [ Accessibility](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-04/episode-5/accessibility/)
- 6 [ Improving Your Website Without a Redesign: Content Audit, Usability Testing & More](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-04/episode-6/how-to-improve-your-website-without-doing-a-full-redesign/)
- 7 [ Content Marketing](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-04/episode-7/content-marketing/)
- 8 [ Alternatives to Google Analytics](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-04/episode-8/alternatives-to-google-analytics/)
- Bonus[ Listener Survey - What Topics do you Want to Hear More of?](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-04/episode-/listener-survey-what-topics-do-you-want-to-hear-more-of/)
- 9 [ Website Optimization and Speed](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-04/episode-9/website-optimization-and-speed/)
- 10 [ Exploring WordPress Website Development with Laura Bailey](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-04/episode-10/wordpress/)
- 11 [ From Novice to Bootcamp Instructor](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-04/episode-11/from-novice-to-bootcamp-instructor/)
- 12 [ Pimp Your Typography](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-04/episode-12/pimp-your-typography/)
### All Seasons
- [Season 01](https://website101podcast.com/season/01/)
- [Season 02](https://website101podcast.com/season/02/)
- [Season 03](https://website101podcast.com/season/03/)
- [Season 04](https://website101podcast.com/season/04/)
- [Season 05](https://website101podcast.com/season/05/)
- [Season 06](https://website101podcast.com/season/06/)
- [Season 07](https://website101podcast.com/season/07/)
- [Season 08](https://website101podcast.com/season/08/)
- [Season 09](https://website101podcast.com/season/09/)
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