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Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Website 101 podcast, the podcast for people who want to learn more about building and managing websites. I'm Sean Smith, your co-host, and with me as always are Amanda Lutz. Hello.

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And Mike Mella. Hello, friends. We're back.

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Yes, we're back. It's been a while, and today's episode is going to be a good one for web developers looking for productivity factors or hacks to help them keep focused and things like that. Yeah.

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We're going to talk about things that help people get their job done or don't help people get their job done, because there's different things for everybody, I think, probably even among the three of us. There's things that we like to experience while we're working. Yeah.

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Yeah. So, yeah. Shall we jump right in? I think we should.

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I think we should. And I think our first topic is everybody's favorite legal drug, coffee. No.

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Certainly yours. False. Certainly Sean's.

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Yeah. Well, I did name my company after coffee. Yes.

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So, I mean, there's a lot of advantages to coffee, and it's such a staple for people around the world. It helps you focus and gives you a little bit of an energy boost early in the day. Yeah.

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It's safe and it helps you go, but overuse, there are side effects. You can get the jitters. It can impact your sleep, and actually, I no longer drink coffee because it impacts my sleep no matter how little I drink.

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I used to drink like four or five cups a day. I was so into coffee, brewing, roasting, everything. Now, I don't drink coffee at all because I got down to like a half a cup.

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I would be waking up at three in the morning and unable to go back to sleep. So, yeah, there are downsides. So, I mean, how about you guys? What's your coffee usage like? I think in my entire life, I've maybe had four mouthfuls of coffee.

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What? Wow. I had no idea. Including cafe au lait.

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I don't even like mocha-flavored ice cream. I never got into it, so I never developed the taste for it, and now it's like, why bother starting now? Wow. I can't believe I'm just learning this about you now.

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How did I not know this? Neither am I. That's surprising. So, yeah. No coffee.

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No thank you. Okay. I have a question for Amanda.

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On those days where you're just struggling to stay awake because you didn't sleep well or whatever, what do you do outside of coffee? I know what I do now, but I'm sure there's lots of other people who can't imagine. Power through. Be sad.

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Take it out on other people. Look forward. Look forward.

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I nap a lot on the weekends, so I look forward to having that nap later, I guess. All right. Cool.

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Mike? Yeah. I do like coffee, but I got tired of occasionally when I didn't have coffee, I would get headaches and I didn't like the idea that I was so dependent on it a little bit. So I switched to decaf coffee, which is still some coffee, of course, but I basically drink decaf every day, like one or two cups, actually measurement cups, probably.

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But that's it. I'm not really into like full caffeine coffee. And by the way, Sean, you were saying earlier about, you know, you were into, you had, what was it? Four cups a day or something like that? Four or five.

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Yeah. People nowadays with Starbucks coffees and that are drinking way more than that, I think on average. I wouldn't worry about it.

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You know what I mean? Oh, I know. Like I still very, very occasionally will go to a Starbucks because I want to use my laptop and I'll get a coffee, the smallest size. But you see people on there and they're getting, I think it's called a venti.

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It's about four cups of coffee, four measured cups of coffee just alone. And you know that these people are drinking more than one of them. It's 20 ounces.

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Yeah. That's what venti means. 20.

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And a cup of coffee is six to eight ounces. Okay. Yeah.

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Yeah. And I'm sure people are like knocking those back a lot. Yeah.

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What scares me I think a lot, especially with Starbucks type coffees is, I mean, yes, just the sheer quantity of the caffeine that they're consuming. But I think a lot of people use it as a vehicle for sugar, for sugar, for cream, for flavors, and like the sugar addiction is a real epidemic. Absolutely.

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And when I drink coffee, I drink it black. I don't do any of their appiccino mixed things. I don't add cream or sugar, nothing.

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So that's me. Related to coffee, there's also energy drinks, which as far as I know, I've never had an energy drink in my life. As far as I know, they all have high amounts of sugar and caffeine as well.

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Well, you can't, I've seen on commercials that you can now get like sugar-free Red Bull and things like that. I do have the next teaching, the upcoming teaching semester, I do have an 8 a.m. class, which means I have to leave at seven to get up there in time. And Andrew was making fun of me because I don't drink coffee.

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And he's like, yeah, maybe we should get you some Red Bull. And it was like, oh, I haven't had a Red Bull for like a couple of decades. And there was definitely Jaeger in it.

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So like even a caffeine drink isn't really going to help me unless I want to be wrecked by the time I get up there. Yeah. Oh, boy.

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OK. All right. Well, OK, let's let's move on here.

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Music. Some people like to work while music is playing. And I've heard a lot of different opinions about what type of music helps different people.

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What I'll start with me, I do listen to music while I work. And I know, especially being a bit of a musician myself, I feel a little guilty about this because you're not supposed to like it. But I like lo-fi music.

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You know what lo-fi music is? It's kind of popular now. I'm going to assume low quality. No, it's not low quality.

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It's just the it's hard to describe, but the the the beat in it is very, very low fi. It's like very minimalist with some instrumentation over top of it. And it's very, very calming and that kind of thing.

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And I love it. And it's the problem is it's very easy to make. So now it's a target for AI to generate all this slop and blah, blah, blah.

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But I listen to that a lot or ambient music, which is, you know, just orchestration stuff. I do not listen to anything with lyrics while I'm working. So how about you guys? What do you do music wise when you're working? Does anything help? I don't I don't know that it helps.

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But when I listen to music when I'm working, it has to be music that I like. And I, as most people, when they get older and become cranky and curmudgeony, I like music from my misspent youth, from like my teens to my 20s and 30s. So I mean, there's going to be Linkin Park and there's going to be Green Day and there's going to be Psalm 41.

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And yes, there's even going to be a little Limp Bizkit. And at this point, it's like it is just background noise. And I will find myself like singing along to the lyrics as I'm typing, because it's it's almost like subliminal now.

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Sad. So there is science that shows that as you grow older, you stay with the music that you learn, that you listen to in your teens and 20s. It's your lifelong jam.

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You might listen to similar style, similar sounding music that's new, but you always fall back to the old stuff. I know I do that as well. For coding, I code in silence, no music.

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I tried playing lots of heavy metal. I'm a big metal fan. I tried rock, jazz, blues.

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I like all of those. I love music. I tried instrumental.

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I just cannot concentrate with anything in the background. No TV, no music, nothing. I code in silence.

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So when I worked at an agency about 12 years ago, it was very difficult. It was one of those open concept things. And the other people in the office were always talking or sharing music with each other very loudly.

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So I had to put on noise cancelling headphones and listen to something to drown out the distractions. But it was still frustrating because I don't like it. Not when I'm working.

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I need silence. Interesting. So this isn't necessarily music related, but Sean would absolutely hate being in any work environment with me because I talk to myself a lot and I swear a lot.

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There was for a while where Andrew and I were trying to share a workspace. We were in his two bedroom condo and had little desks beside each other. It was really cute.

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And after like a week or two, he was just like, nope, nope, I can't because everything would be fine and music playing or not. And all of a sudden I would just like start talking out loud either about what I was coding or about something completely different. And then I would just start swearing about something not working.

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And then I would start swearing with joy when it did start working like, yeah, I'm not a great person to be around if you would like to work in private in nice solitude and quiet. Yeah. I think that agency job would have been fine if I had an office with a door, but that was only reserved for the project manager and the higher up people.

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I was out with the peasants. The worker bees. Yeah.

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Okay. Well, since you've touched on that, let's jump to that topic. Coffee shops, we're working in a coffee shop.

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There are a lot of people who, I don't know, I don't get it, but they purposely go to a coffee shop to work. And actually, Sean, I think you do this sometimes or have done. I did it this week.

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Okay. So this week, how does this jibe with your silence thing? Is it not too loud in there? I'm not, I'm not coding. You're not.

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Okay. I'm doing administrative work, maybe emails, writing a proposal. So it's just code that you need silence for, purely code.

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I need silence for the code. Sometimes I'll go to a coffee shop and do tutorials. So maybe I'm on Codecademy or Udemy or something like that, and I'm learning something.

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I'll do it there because I got to have headphones on anyways. And it's nice to get out of my basement office. Okay.

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I got a really tiny window with a small deck above it. So there's almost zero light that comes in. It's nice to be in a place with big windows and natural light.

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Sure. Yeah. My concern with going to any public space, like a coffee shop or a library or something like that is, what happens when you got to go to the bathroom? Do you pack everything up and take it with you? I do.

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Do you just leave it on the table? But then you lose your spot. Well, this is what I do. When I lived in Korea, I would leave my computer and my phone on the desk, on the table and go.

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It's very safe country. Here, computer and my phone and my headphones go in the bag, and that goes with me into the washroom. If it's winter or fall, I'll leave my jacket on the table.

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If not, I'll leave a book or something or an old coffee cup indicating, hey, I'm coming back. But I never leave anything that's worth stealing. I just don't trust people here.

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It's annoying because especially when I got my second monitor with my laptop, that I got to disconnect everything and then reconnect it. I know that it's not a great big giant, what was it, CRT cube, but I like imagining that it is. Oh, it's a 15 inch, it looks like a laptop.

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I know, but why would you take away my fantasy? Yeah, that would be funny. This is my issue. First of all, I don't own a laptop or anything like that.

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I have a desktop and it's not practical for me to go anywhere but my office. But we have a library, a really beautiful library directly across the street, and I know people who go there to work. My problem with anything like coffee shops, libraries, whatever, is I know that if I were to go there, I would be that creepy guy looking over the top of his laptop with my eyes darting back and forth.

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Oh, I wonder what that guy's doing. I wonder what she's up to. No, no.

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I mean, I'd be people watching. I'd be watching everyone around me walking by. I would never be able to focus on my screen.

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I'd constantly watch what's happening around me. That's interesting because my son, he's a second year at university. He goes to the library to study because he can't study at home because the refrigerator, the TV, and his bed are all here, as well as the PlayStation.

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You know, he's like, I need to get away from the house. So sometimes he goes all the way downtown to the University of Toronto, and other times he just takes the car and goes to the library that's nearby. It's not as close as Mike, but it's still pretty close.

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So then what I would wonder is, when your son goes to the library, maybe he's looking for one of those individual carousels that's almost like a little cubicle just to be at so that everything is out, whereas maybe Mike is sitting in the big open area. So maybe even in public spaces, you can still find something that's going to be best for whatever suits your needs. Yeah, I think a library is going to be more of an opportunity for pseudo-privacy rather than a coffee shop, which they try to encourage turnover at the coffee shop because you know there are people that go there, spend six hours, and buy a $3 coffee.

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That's like the cheapest rent ever. I remember once I was at a coffee shop, and they had a sign on all the tables, and the sign said, for your convenience, please stay for no longer than one hour. For your convenience.

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When I did go to coffee shops regularly to work, I did this a lot when I lived overseas. I was teaching and I went there to grade because I just found it easier to grade. If I was there more than two hours, I'd go and buy something else.

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I just felt there was no rule about it. I just felt bad that, hey, I'm here for four hours taking up your real estate, and I spent $3. I should at least buy another drink, maybe a snack.

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Yeah, I would be like that too. There have been times when the internet's been out here at home, and I will maybe not go to a coffee shop because, again, I don't like coffee, but I'll go to a bar, get a nice pint of cider, hang out for a little bit. That makes work a lot more fun.

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Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

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Getting away from your routine location adds a little variety. Well, speaking of- And also drinking. Yeah, exactly.

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Let's jump into that one. I was going to say, since you brought it up, you were saying, Sean, that everyone's legal drug of choice is coffee, not mine. My legal drug of choice would be whiskey, probably, but I don't drink while I work.

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I don't think I'd be very effective if I tried. I don't know that I've ever tried that, but I just figure it's not going to go very well. I can get what you're saying, Amanda, that go and have a beer or whatever.

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Any other drugs that anyone might consider using? Now that marijuana is legal, during COVID, especially at the beginning of COVID, at the beginning of lockdown, I was just very tense all the time. I think my kid was about five years old then, which is, I mean, it wasn't the worst age to be in lockdown, but it was still a very tense time. And that's when I started getting gummies on a semi-regular basis.

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And I wouldn't take enough to be stoned, and I wouldn't even take enough to just a little bit of a gummy, just to sort of help just the whole physical- Take the edge off? Take a breath, not feel quite so on edge.

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And anxious and I mean, you know, it wasn't all the time and it wasn't every day but yes, it was uh, if if it if it helps clear your mind and if it helps get you into a Physical state where you're not like almost ready to cry then it's it helped. Yeah interesting Yeah for me. I I have no interest in drugs at all zero none I barely I barely drink alcohol.

I Touched Marijuana a couple of times when I was 17 went way back when it was illegal and I said, oh, okay I'm turning 18 no more drugs because I want to travel and I just don't want to have a record And I haven't missed it since like I know it became a it was legal Canada wide in 2017 or so was that or 2018 somewhere there? I I can't remember it Just no interest for me No judgment either I mean anybody who wants to do it go ahead great as long as it doesn't impact your Your job or your family life in a negative way go for it, you know do it. I don't care. Yeah, I haven't tried Cannabis while I'm working.

I don't know how effective that would be I do know people not in our industry not not in web work, but I know people who Do smoke weed before they work and they swear by it. They think it really helps So that's great for them. I I'm not in that I also feel like if you get into a habit like that, it could get really expensive if you if you start relying on these kind of Intoxicants or whatever to help you get through the day sort of thing, you know Well, I think I think that's the problem is that once you start Relying on it.

Like if it's something that's like a crutch that's sort of getting you through the rough patch you know, whether it be the coffee in the morning or a Glass of wine at night or a gummy or like whatever it is, that's fine but I've heard like for example, I've heard of like recovering alcoholics that Part of what they miss is the ritual of going to the bar after work and being able to sit there and decompress for 20 minutes Well, they have that drink before they go home and they're not drinking anymore and but they actually end up missing more is The routine the the time that they've allotted to be by themselves And so I think that like you really have to when you start looking at substances I think that you really need to look at like why you're using them and why you think you need them and why you feel you need to rely on them and It's it's always a lot more than just I'm more creative when I'm drinking like yeah, it's it's always more Yeah, I think This is coming from a guy who doesn't use it at all I think like occasional use why not but once it becomes regular and you feel a need for it That's it's time to evaluate and maybe look for other solutions. Yeah, probably. Mm-hmm Okay How about like I we we all personally The three of us are working from home we have home offices we're self-employed based I mean Amanda teaches as well, but We don't work in offices anymore I used to work in an office, of course like the big cubicle type thing and I did not like it There are people who were like, oh, I got to get back to the office after the pandemic or whatever I just boggles my mind that people thought like that because I don't People would come and sit on my desk and start conversations and interrupt my flow couldn't stand Yeah, so what's your what? What are your experiences working from offices and things like that you guys? When I had last worked in an office, which was yes a very long time ago, I loved it.

I Loved the PI Please do remember and I'm sure this will come as not a surprise to anybody If I'm not if I can't talk right now, I will tell you to go away If I don't want to hear what you're saying, I will tell you not now. I'll talk to you later I'm in the middle of something and I've never had a problem doing that and and you know Maybe at first people think that it's like it's too blunt and it's just a minute and it's like no Like this is what I'm doing. I will come find you at lunch or we'll talk after work But I also think that when I did work in an office, I think that just the entire world was different than it is now like the the my co-workers were my friends and groups of us would go out like to bars and to clubs and Like during the week and hang out on the weekend and meet up for dinner or lunch sometime Like like they we were we were really close and even a good handful of them that I worked with then I'm still really good friends with now.

Yeah, and I think that especially Post COVID. I think that a lot of that sort of office friendly Culture has completely changed. So I don't I think that I can definitely see why a lot of people Would not want to go back Back was the RTO return to office.

Yeah It's it's definitely a different vibe Yeah So for me, I only worked in one office for two years Before that I was a teacher and that's you know, very independent There's a teacher's office where you can meet other teachers and do whatever And then I moved to Canada and I got one job at an agency. I worked there for two years. I Did not like the office environment it was too noisy the whole thing that Amanda mentioned where people would drop by and sit on your desk or Just want to like chat about whatever.

I Found it incredibly distracting. I'd even posted like I tied a note to the back of my desk or my chair I got headphones on don't bother me Yeah, and it didn't make a difference even though I their office was like 10 or 12 people total I would tell them over and over I got headphones on I don't want to try unless it's about work and urgent Nope, I gotta tell you all about the walking dead. I don't care Let's talk at lunch.

I don't miss that at all. I I So that dates at the walking dead dates it for when that happened. Yeah, I Don't miss that at all for me when I when I quit that office job and I moved into my home office Greatest move ever.

I've been work from home since before work from home was a thing I know that's the truth for all of us and I love it and it's interesting since kovat because now my wife is work from home But she still goes to the office two days a week my daughter. She's out of university. She is work from home except for three days a week, so There's more people in the house, but they're working and they don't doors are closed.

There's nobody dropping in There'll be messages just for lunch before lunch. What do you guys want to eat? Who's who's cooking? Hmm? Yeah, I did not enjoy the the office experience I'd be down to work in an office again, if I had an office with a door I don't mind gotta be senior management coat. Yeah, I don't mind the I don't mind the collegial stuff Like at lunch or after your senior management senior management don't even get offices anymore Everything is hoteling now.

Yeah, like you don't even get you don't even get your own cubicle anymore Yeah my wife She used to have a desk where she'd leave leave her computer and put some, you know, personal effects there Nope, she has to bring the computer back every day and she'd get a random desk My daughter went to the office and came back at lunch the other day Because there were no desks available. She was sitting in the lobby and her computer ran out of battery. Jeez It's like things have changed Yeah, yeah things are super change.

So anyways for me, uh I'd be open to an office, but I would need some guarantees of privacy. I don't mind You know, they the collegial Networking and going out for drinks after but don't interrupt me when I'm focusing on work. Yeah, I that's my big thing I've heard of people putting sigh or like, you know If you see this stuff toy on my desk, it means don't talk to me what I've heard things like that I don't know how well they're not effective for you Sean, I guess but and I agree with you Amanda that There were like camaraderie stuff and you go out to a bar with your co-workers that that stuff is fun And I also have stayed close with a lot of people I used to work with But I don't know in terms of actually like getting work done I I find I'm far more productive at my home office than I was in an office and a shared office, you know Well, I mean I find I used to say this a lot when I first started working for myself.

I'm definitely a better employee Working for myself because I don't go for a walk in the morning when somebody's going on a coffee run I don't have the the two-hour liquid lunches. I don't but even even when I was working in the office It's like if somebody wants to come by and chat with me for a bit fantastic Let's chat and then they leave and then I can go back and get right back into work. I have no problem doing that Mm-hmm.

Nice. That's good Okay, what do you want to talk about next here? Cold environments. This is an interesting idea Can a cold environment Increase alertness.

I don't work in a cold. I like to sleep in a cold environment, but I don't work in one Yeah, but you guys my experience with cold environments is just the women in the offices that I've worked in have always complained that the Offices are too cold always in every you know, why though? Why is that? Well, it's because they set office temperatures even in the summer for all of the sales guys wearing their suits Oh Is that I did not know in the summer when somebody comes in and like? Shorts or a skirt or you know t-shirt or something like that and if they've got the air conditioning set at like 21 like that's that's a chilly temperature. So yes, women are always complaining about cold offices I was gonna bring up Amanda's point as well.

Okay, it's it's about it's generally about the clothing Okay, interesting. I don't think I put that together that men wear more layers I guess in their business attire than women tend to maybe yeah Interesting. Yeah, I'm again Because times have changed and and office environments are much more casual these days.

I don't know if it's still a thing Because I'm not in I think like in a bigger office where you have a c-suite the c-suite people are still wearing suits The the lower level people may or may not be doing more casual But the temperature is still going to be set to make the c-suite comfortable, yeah, it's true Hey, I'm wearing a three-piece suit and a sweater. I don't care if you're cold. I Gotta be comfortable.

I don't want to sweat. Yeah, I've heard about places where they have The the air conditioning on and then someone brings in like a heater Yeah to counter under their desk and then now you have hot and cold in the same That's just absurd when it gets to that point. Something's wrong, you know All right, moving on.

What else we got here Sean you added some stuff to our little document here. You want to get into that? Yeah, so it's a little bit Well, this the first point here is routine setting up a routine will help you get into a rhythm every day You know Humans are Habitual creatures we like to do the same thing at the same time So you set yourself up a routine that could be like setting your alarm have breakfast have your morning coffee Whatever you sit down at your desk at 8 o'clock or 8 30 or whatever you start working Every day at 10 10 30. I'm gonna go take my dog for a walk If I don't have a dog, I'm gonna go for a neighborhood walk and then come back and I'm gonna work until 12 Then I make my lunch at 1245 I come back, you know have a routine so that when you sit down you automatically Shift into work mode and it'll be easier to get into the zone.

Mm-hmm. So yeah, I I Always come down to my desk at 8 o'clock and I do a little bit of photography work until around 845 and then I start working on whatever Code of the day is And I have a couple of other little things I do during the day. I think this is a really great approach What about you guys? Amanda you want to go ahead? Oh I'm silently laughing to myself because the thought of being like up and moving and thinking at 8 o'clock in the morning is Is not how I operate I You know what? I have I Feel like I feel like my work jam is like 10 to 5 10 to 6 even Yeah, see that.

Yeah, that's the thing. The routine is different for everybody My routine is 8 because I can't sleep past 6 o'clock. So I'm up early You're a later sleeper.

They're routine your your 10 o'clock is my 8 o'clock. Yeah Yeah, I like the routine stuff too, I guess I try try to stick to things, you know I've got I'm not good at it. I have this app on my computer.

I kind of I think it's called pause and it is a timer that Suddenly takes over the screen every whatever you set it to I think I have it at one hour and says time to take a break or Go drink a glass of water or go for a walk or look at something in the distance But all this stuff like that that you're supposed to do periodically and far too often I just hit the X ignore it. I'm on a roll here I'm not doing this right now and then I get the whole day done and I haven't done it It's the same with the watch if you haven't taken enough steps in an hour. It'll like to vibrate and be like 200 more steps to go and then it's like oh, I'll get to it.

Yeah, and then I don't so Your timer thing sounds like the Pomodoro routine. Yeah, it was really really really big about 10 12 years ago Yes, and I I know a couple of people who swear by it and you know That's like a 25 minute timer and a 5 minute break 25 5 minute break And then after a few cycles you take a 20 or a 30 minute break it's just supposed to keep you in the vibe, but Honestly when I'm in the zone, I don't want to break every five minutes if it's if it's a task That's gonna take me 90 minutes. I don't want to break in the middle because I have to get I Think it works for some people but it doesn't work for me That's why I added it to the doc because it is a popular approach and similar to what Mike had mentioned Yeah, I mean it sounds good But Sean I'm exactly like you when it comes to marking assignments Like I just want to sit down and just like plow through them Just get them done and if it takes an hour it takes an hour and if it takes an hour and a half That's what it takes.

Just get it Yeah checked off my to-do list and you're right Sean It sounds like what I use but to be to be clear as I said, I am NOT effective It's not effective. I'm not it's you know, following these rules. So you You're a wannabe because you've set it up.

Yeah, you're not willing to follow the routine. It's true I feel I feel like it's good for me to do that but I just when it comes time and like I Don't stop bothering me. It's like the people who come to my desk at the at the cubicle there Like it's just something another thing interrupting my flow, you know Yeah, exactly So I know it works for some people and that's why I wanted to bring it up I think it's a good idea, but it's just I've never tried it because it just doesn't appeal to me.

Mm-hmm Okay, well that's maybe that's a good Place to kind of wrap it up. Do you think yeah, I'd love to know what our listeners if we haven't mentioned things or like Oh you guys should try this thing That's really effective at helping the view focus or whatever or this is this weird thing that I do I'd love to know about it. So please get in touch website 101 podcast comm slash contact and Yeah, I definitely like to know your productivity tips and hacks.

Yeah, absolutely While we're here I do want to remind our listener that on the first and third Wednesday of every month we do a YouTube live We call it lunch bites because it happens from 1130 to 12 And we just talk about whatever random things we feel like talking about so check out our YouTube channel Come join us for lunch bites. Yeah, come join us Certainly. Okay.

Thanks for listening. Bye. Bye everyone.

Bye The website 101 podcast is hosted by me Amanda Lutz. You can also find me online at Amanda Lutz comm Recording from a secret lair while plotting world domination. I'm Sean Smith your co-host One of your hosts today was me Mike Mella find me online at be like water.ca or on socials at Mike Mella

 Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai.