--- title: Contract Opinions From Not a Lawyer date: 2022-06-14T05:00:00-04:00 author: Sean Smith canonical_url: "https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-12/contract-opinions-from-not-a-lawyer/" section: Podcast --- <!\[CDATA\[YII-BLOCK-BODY-BEGIN\]\]>[Skip to main content](#main-content)![Tim Scollick](https://website101podcast.com/uploads/hosts/_200x200_crop_center-center_none/tim-scollick.png)Guest Tim Scollick Former freelancer, now start up founder of AdChat Season 05 Episode 12 – Jun 14, 2022 30:54 [Show Notes](#show-notes) ## Contract Opinions From Not a Lawyer  0:00 0:00 1.0x 0.75x1.0x1.25x1.5x2x [](//dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/website101podcast.com/uploads/mp3/season-05/S05-E12-Contract-Opinions-From-Not-a-Lawyer.mp3) We talk to Tim Scollick about working with freelancers and agencies both using and not using a contract. ### Show Notes - Tim's history as a freelancer. - Contracts are super important but they don't always have to be legally binding. - Break work into smaller chunks helps to build trust. - Lawyers are expensive. - Non competition clauses - Small claims court - Red flags ### Show Links - Powered Transcript Accuracy of transcript is dependant on AI technology. **\[00:00\]** **Mike:** Hello and welcome to another episode of the website 101 podcast. This is a podcast for novice web developers and small business owners who want to learn more about running and optimizing their websites. This is season five episode 12. I'm one of your hosts, Mike Mele, and with me is Sean Smith. Hi, Sean. How you doing? I'm doing great, Mike. Happy to be here. And Amanda Lutz. Amanda. Hello. **\[00:27\]** **Amanda:** Hello. It's showing us this nice, long intro when I get a hello. **\[00:31\]** **Mike:** Amanda, hello. **\[00:32\]** **Amanda:** Nice, thanks. **\[00:33\]** **Mike:** Sorry, I'll work on that. **\[00:35\]** **Amanda:** Greetings and salutations. Right. **\[00:37\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** Oh, it's a Hayseg, right? **\[00:38\]** **Mike:** She's new. I'll tell you what, you get to introduce our guest today. Tell us who's on the show. **\[00:42\]** **Amanda:** Okay, I'm going to show you how to do a proper introduction, Mike. **\[00:45\]** **Mike:** I appreciate that. **\[00:46\]** **Amanda:** You are. Today, we're going to be talking about contract opinions from not a lawyer. And the not a lawyer who is doing us today is Tim Scolick. Tim has a lot of contract opinions because he's been on both sides. He's been both the freelancer, the former freelancer, and now he's got his startup founder of AdChat and other companies. Hi, Tim. **\[01:10\]** **Tim:** How are you? Hey. **\[01:12\]** **Mike:** Hello, everybody. **\[01:13\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** Nice to meet you, Mike and Sean. Welcome to the show, Tim. **\[01:15\]** **Mike:** Yeah, this is going to be first of a series, perhaps, of episodes about contracts because we know people want to hear a lot about it. we're going to get Tim's opinion about how contracts should work regarding the work he does and all that. **\[01:28\]** **Amanda:** Yeah, so Tim, tell us about how, when you started, tell us about some of the freelance work that you were doing, how you got into it, and if you had contracts, if you dealt with them, how you felt about them back then. **\[01:42\]** **Tim:** Sure. Okay. Well, I sort of started in development working at learning companies and then I moved to ad agencies. I was a flash developer back in the day when flash development was in high demand. I didn't like the agency life because it required doing work with too few people due to lack of trained personnel for the amount of work. And it was getting to the burnout point. Someone approached me about starting a startup. So I did that for a few months, but it burned out due to wrong partnerships and my somewhat green skills at the time took on too much. People just weren't going well, and one partner left, then I quickly followed. So I found myself out of a job at a time when my skills were in high demand. Friends started asking me to do things, and before I knew it, I realized that doing things for friends and working on my own was much more profitable than actually working for an agency for a salary. So I became a freelancer and started with a sole proprietorship quite accidentally. At that point, I didn't know what I was doing, so I definitely didn't use contracts. I actually thought they were going to come take me away because the amount of money I made versus being on a salary surprised me. So it was too good to be true, I guess. I signed a lot of non-disclosure agreements when working through some producers for large agencies, but I barely read them and just signed them back without fully understanding their implications. **\[03:22\]** **Amanda:** Every year, every year in April, I still get very panicking. **\[03:29\]** **Tim:** A legally vetted contract is a red flag for us. And I'll explain why Sean. It's not because we don't respect anyone who wants to do that and that's the way they run their business, but the way our clients typically roll is disorganized, chaotic, and high-pressure. If there's a Super Bowl campaign coming up, we need to work with partners and share the wealth because there's always lots of money for rush projects. So getting lawyers and paying for them slows things down. If I needed a lawyer in the past, it cost $350 to $450 an hour, and if they looked over the contract for four hours, that would be $1,500 coming out of my pocket. If I didn't agree to the job, it would be $1,500 coming out of my pocket as well. **\[04:09\]** **Amanda:** Yeah. So now that you have, I don't want to say advanced, now that you have evolved and moved on up in the world and now you are the co-founders of the company. You are running the company. So tell us about some of the companies that you've gotten, how that evolved and how do you feel about contracts now that you are the boss. **\[04:31\]** **Tim:** When I was freelancing, I started working for one client and the more I worked for them, the more I worked for them, and then it just kind of made more sense to be on as a partner. In the business, and I brought some of my friends to that business that was called Lollipop, and that's actually where Amanda and I met Amanda. I think maybe you came on after me or maybe you worked for them before me. I think maybe actually you worked there before I did. **\[04:53\]** **Amanda:** I think I was there before you were because I remember being a little bit jealous and pissy when they made you partner. **\[05:00\]** **Tim:** Oh, were you oh, I think I was a little bit. Oh, wow. I mean it worked out it worked out in the end **\[05:05\]** **Amanda:** I'm happy with you know with you know the trajectory and stuff that I've taken, but I mean working more and more with Tim after he was brought on as a partner Tim's wicked smart Hmm. Oh stop. So are you Amanda? I am but Tim is super smart **\[05:22\]** **Tim:** We can turn off the microphone and we can I can tell you about why you got the suite around at that deal. So **\[05:28\]** **Amanda:** We'll talk after **\[05:30\]** **Tim:** Most show ramble, but yeah. **\[05:32\]** **Amanda:** So now that you are the boss, and you have to deal with the contractors and the freelancers, has your opinion changed about contracts? **\[05:42\]** **Tim:** I mean, contracts are super important, but they don't always have to be legally vetted, I think. In that, a contract is like an agreement between two parties. And I think that's really important. to have an agreement before you start, but I don't know that I ever get a lawyer to look at a contract with an independent contractor. You know, there's a lot of levers that can be pulled between contractors and the company they work for, particularly in terms of payment, in terms of delivery of work, and everybody has to get along in that scenario or things can go **\[06:22\]** **Amanda:** really haywire fast. And I think open communication, right, starting from the very beginning. totally. Transparency is very important. Yeah. Totally. Do you ever get a freelancer **\[06:32\]** **Mike:** that you work with who pushes back and says like, no, no, I want to pro contract with the lawyer and all that stuff. Well, you got it, you know, and if you did that, get someone like that, would you just tell them to hit the bricks or how would that go? No, no, no, **\[06:47\]** **Tim:** of course not. No, that never happens. It has happened before with subcontracting companies where we'll hire like a dev shop to do like if we'll have a bigger application build. I think that's happened and it could have been a red flag actually. I think the project went okay but they ended up taking a bit more time maybe or something. I don't remember. It was a long, long time ago that that happened and I remember thinking wow, these guys like are really buttoned up. Is that cool? Is there something hiding in here that I don't know? **\[07:23\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** I want to step back a bit because it seems like you said that wanting a contract is a red flag, or maybe I miss red, but you said, could you go into that a little bit? **\[07:34\]** **Tim:** Yeah, no, no, I mean, definitely want, like a legally vetted contract is a red flag for us. And I'll explain why Sean. It's not because I respect anyone who wants to do that and that's the way they run their business but the way that our clients typically roll is disorganized chaotic and really high pressure that if there's a Super Bowl campaign coming up and it's December 20th and they're gonna need it to run by January 21st. I just don't have time to have subcontractors contract that it and we need to work with partners and there's always lots of money for those rush projects right? So, you know, we can share the wealth and that's always what we try to do. And, so, I guess, yeah, it is a bit of a red flag, and not in that you shouldn't have a contract just, but in the way we work and the way with our clients, it's almost always a rush job. And we barely have time to do the project let alone. Wait to hear back from the lawyers. Yeah, getting to lawyers and paying for lawyers. And honestly, you'll have to pay less money because if I spend the last time I paid for a lawyer it was $350 an hour or $450 an hour and if I need that lawyer she needs to look it over for four hours then you know that's $1,500 coming out of your pocket and if you don't agree to the job it's **\[09:00\]** **Mike:** I have a number of agencies that I do work for, and each of them had a contract with the initial job, and then everything else is just like my email because we have this original agreement and an understanding. There's a history. But when I work with individual businesses, sometimes I have a contract, sometimes I don't. It just depends. I do like having a contract, but I am a little inconsistent. I have had a contract that was vetted by a lawyer, and so I use that, and if somebody pushes back on a clause, I might read it myself and say, "Yeah, okay, I agree or disagree," and I haven't gone back to that lawyer because it's expensive. **\[09:42\]** **Tim:** Right. Right. And I mean, I can work with developers to say, like, if it ever got to that, it would be like, look, let's just start small and I'll give you a thousand bucks if you give me a log in system with two roles, right? And then we can take it from in this particular CMS or whatever it is, and then, you know, then the next task you break it into small chunks and like if you really didn't trust each other enough to deliver it you know you can break it up into small pieces and I respect anyone you know if you've never worked with someone you got to make sure you get paid for sure but it's pretty rare you don't get paid in my experience at least with the people we play with I think it's happened **\[10:17\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** once. Speaking for myself I'm kind of hit and miss with contracts sometimes I use them sometimes I don't. I have a number of agencies that I do work for and each of the agencies I had a contract with the initial job and then everything else is just like my email because we have this original agreement. We have an understanding. There's a history. But when I work with like an individual business, sometimes I have a contract. Sometimes I don't. It just depends So, quickly things roll, so I'm a little inconsistent and I do like having a contract. I did have a contract that was vetted by a lawyer, and so I use that, and if somebody pushes back on a clause, I might read it myself and say, yeah, okay, I agree or disagree, and I haven't gone back to that lawyer, because like you said, it's expensive. Yeah, right, right. And the same thing, if I get a contract or an NDA from somebody, I'll read through it, and I'll push back on something I don't understand or I disagree with. And I actually turned down one job because they wanted to say that I was not able to work in that industry for like five years. Oh, right. **\[11:32\]** **Tim:** Oh, totally. Totally. **\[11:34\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** Sorry. I'm not going to work with you. And they were like, they were, honestly, they were a little surprised, and then I never heard from them. **\[11:40\]** **Mike:** Did you tell them it was because of that clause that you rejected? **\[11:43\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** I did. back and forth for two or three weeks on it and I said I don't need a lawyer to read this clause because it was in pretty plain English. I am not agreeing to anything that has this clause. And it got to the point where even if they had agreed to remove it, I probably would have turned down working for them because they were so resistant on it. But yeah, that's a total red flag. **\[12:06\]** **Mike:** Yeah, non-competition clause, I think it's called. Sorry, there was no question on there but it was more **\[12:11\]** **Tim:** It breaks up an interesting point because I mean that's where we do pay for legal is when we work for a big bad car company X or You know massive giant British owned conglomerate that owns almost all the advertising agencies in the world and sends you this giant document And we're like here you need to sign this first and it's like sometimes that that's when you do get lawyers to look over things go over things. Although in that particular case, you're not the first, or there's probably been a hundred agencies that were signed that document. So it's been pretty well vetted. But, you know, we do receive from a lot of our clients, that's when we use legal. It's like, what are we signing? But as far as like an independent contractor, the other thing about independent contractors is that, and this, from freelance perspective too, is that like, you can't use the course to collect $15,000. You can maybe use small clients from what **\[13:05\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** I know. Actually, Amanda has a story. Can you? Oh, Amanda's got a small claim story. Hi, Sean here. Hope you're enjoying this episode of the website one-on-one podcast. We'd love it if you'd give us a review on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. These kind of reviews help new listeners find out about us and allow us to keep doing the show. **\[13:31\]** **Amanda:** Thanks. I was doing a project with a designer that I'd met up with randomly and she thankfully had her she had some stuff more put together because she was a designer like even her her proposals looked very fancy and very nice and the cost estimates looked very nice and very put together so we went and met with this client who had it was like some kitchen gadget store. And the whole meeting, quite frankly looking back, was just full of red flags. 2020 is hindsight is 2020. And so we agreed on the cost for the project. And then she had an addendum in this little time estimate that was like, this does not include entering products. If you want us to enter all of your products, that will be a separate cost. And we told him that multiple times, and he signed it. So it was great. We went through, we did the project. We got the project done or almost done, and we were like, okay, it's time to give us some money. Because that's another thing that I'm really bad at is getting a deposit. I'm just excited to get in and start working and, oh yeah, we're about to go live. You should give me some money now. That's usually how I end up rolling. Never after launch, always before. But anyway, so we were about ready to launch, and it was like, we're done, look at it, reviews, everything is great. And he's like, there's no products in there. And we were like, well, yeah, because extra cost, He's like, I'm not paying anything extra. And it's like, but you sign this. He's like, well, then I cancel the project. And I was like, okay. And so I don't know if she just like stuck this in or if somebody recommended it to her, but she had like a little, like a single footnote that was like if the project is canceled, client is still responsible for paying as much as we've got done. And we're like, great, project's done. You want to cancel it? Pay us anyway. And he's like, I'm not paying. So we took him to Small Claims Court. And it was a long ordeal. I feel like this is like a whole conversation that should happen in a different episode. But yeah, we ended up winning. And then he appealed it and we ended up winning the appeal. To do it ended up having to pay us all because this one, it was just, it was a piece of paper that I'm sure was not legally vetted at any point, but it was something that he signed. So I mean, and maybe that's the difference. Maybe it's like, if you have the email agreement, maybe if you have the sort of DIY, I wrote some things down and you signed it. You've got to buy a paper trail of some things. **\[15:59\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** There's got to be some sort of paper trail **\[16:01\]** **Amanda:** and that's going to cover your butt. **\[16:03\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** A man to have a question for you about that. So you won the appeal and the original one. Did that include your court costs? **\[16:11\]** **Amanda:** It included the court costs. It included the cost for the actual, for the first initial trial. We used a legal aid. No, not illegal aid. What is it? Not a lawyer? Parallegal. Thank you. We used a paralegal, it covered that cost. And then for the appeal, we decided to get like a lawyer because we were just tired of this BS by this point. So it included all of those court fees and legal fees as well. **\[16:40\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** I can't imagine how stressful that was. It was stressful. You lost money on it, didn't you, yeah? **\[16:46\]** **Amanda:** Oh, I think that it probably all told. It was probably about a year and a half, two years. Wow, so for $10,000 because it was the maximum you could get in small claims court at that time. **\[16:58\]** **Tim:** Yeah, so I know the wait times, I can't tell you why I know this, but I know the wait times for Superior Court right now in Ontario are like three to four years. **\[17:07\]** **Amanda:** Especially because of COVID. So just, you know, almost fingers crossed, hoping COVID is, yeah, so right now, that doesn't surprise me. **\[17:15\]** **Tim:** So, like I say, no contracts with independent consultants, but we definitely always have a statement of work that's very detailed that has our terms of payment and what we’re believe we deliver at the time we’re supposed to deliver, which is always a moving target. It’s almost always a moving target. So I think that’s very important. And I think if I look back on my independent contracting days, I think that scope of works were probably something I wasn't really good at. And payment was something I was terrible at because at the time my income just jumped so much and I was working so much, like payment was the last of my worries. It was kind of like, you know, and then again, trusted friends, I knew I'd get the money, but I was just trying to like fulfill contracts, you know? Eventually the money would come. **\[18:07\]** **Mike:** So we talked a little bit about red flags earlier. Do you have any sort of things that you really do watch out for, given that you try to keep things a little bit casual as far as contract work goes. Do you, you know, is there anything that happens that makes you just go, oh wait, this is not gonna go well. We better tighten the strings or whatever. **\[18:26\]** **Tim:** Anything like that? Yeah, they’re like code smells though. You can’t really always like detail them, but when you see them, you know. It’s like things like overzealous creatives, I think are always a total danger because we work for, or we have in the past, we haven't recently, but we work for some of the, like, the best creative agencies in the US and their creative departments are just by design, but like just bully, can be bullying and can be very, very aggressive because they’re, you know, hot shot. Madison Avenue, $300,000 an hour creative director, or sorry, $300,000 your creative directors and they want things the way they want things. So, I mean, sometimes you can see red flags there. I find designers like because I'm a developer can really kind of wreck your day and I find on the other side of the coin that designers that don't have a lot of experience can be a problem as well because they don't always design for mobile or they don't understand a bunch of things right. And honestly, the way I can test that out is Photoshop files is that bad problem Mac designers always have unorganized layers, yes, this blue doesn't match that blue. This lettering is different from this lettering in the margins here wrong. When I see that, then it's almost always that. And on the other side when you have a really good creative graphic development designer, they never I don't care about their files either, because they just don't care about people. I have no empathy, right? So, it's like, wow, this looks great, but it's only one layer, or you know, there's no, it's a 200 layers, and they're all called like EQ4 and XX, 2Z. **\[20:18\]** **Amanda:** Level one, level two, level three. Yeah, right, right, right. **\[20:23\]** **Tim:** So there's lots of things like that, and there's tons of them on, I don't know, they're kind of too numerous to mention. Legal is definitely a problem. Like if you see a lot of legal from a client, you're going to be like, you might be an informer for a rough ride, particularly before the job starts. **\[20:38\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** Yeah. Going back to when you were freelancing or an independent contractor, I'm sure that you had some situations where you needed to have a contractor, you'd feel safer about it. How did you do that yourself? did you kind of do a DIY contract or did you actually hire a lawyer or do none of **\[21:02\]** **Tim:** others? I think I hired a lawyer because I thought I was, I hired a lawyer at one point for an hour because I thought I had some liability on something that I can’t really describe, but it wasn’t involved with project work. And I asked them and we spent 20 minutes talking about it. And then he was like, do you have any other questions about that? And and I didn't and he's like, well, you’re here for an hour. What else do you need to know? And so then I asked him this like, and I still remember it was, it was in that building above the keg on New York Street in Toronto. And I just remember being like, well, I spent 400 bucks an hour, the 500 bucks now, and just like, peppering the sky for like an hour. And that's hilarious. So we had a good time. And I like it even got to like, okay, do you, who do you live with? You know, are you married to or are you probably like, we’re getting, he's like, yeah, I think he just like, he just like spelled out all the legal liability of 31 year old dude could run into, you know, and, so you know. **\[22:05\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** Mike and Amanda are the same question to you guys. Do you have a contract that you got legally vetted? **\[22:11\]** **Mike:** I had one that, there used to be a thing in the web dev community, I forget who it was that did this but a popular like sort of web celeb from the UK released a contract like a plain English kind of web dev contract and he said, here everybody can just use this if you don't you know and I started using that and I realized later this is probably never going to hold up in the court thing if it especially here in Canada if it was made in England somewhere. But I used to use that for years where I would just, you know, send it better than nothing. Yeah, exactly. Then Sean, you shared some of your contract. I would say the last but yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I started incorporating that. But this is part of the issue with contracts because half the time neither party knows fully what the contract is saying, you know. And there's been times for me where I have this one clause in my contract that says that I own the work that’s being done. I don't do work for hire, so technically if I make a website, I own the code, I own the graphics, and I'm licensing it to the client for lifetime, like forever. They get the, you know, but technically they can, it's to protect me from them hiring a guy at half my price to do the same thing for a second project that I just did, right? **\[23:32\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** or also to prevent them from saying, you can't use it, you can't showcase your work. Yeah, stuff like that. **\[23:39\]** **Mike:** But the truth is, there's been times when I've been in a situation where the clients, like I say that a lawyer or whatever suddenly pushes back about that particular clause, like, oh, we hired you to build a website, so we own the website, they just think of the website as if I built them a table or something. So when they do that, I just usually just go, okay, fine, let's take that one out. And the reason being that I'd rather get paid the $20,000 for that project, then turn it down because, oh, how dare you declare that you own the site that I built for you, it gets all weird. **\[24:11\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** There's some flexibility with contracts. I've also removed the clause once or twice, but I have a general, like, a longer thing, which I'll talk about after Amanda goes. **\[24:23\]** **Amanda:** I have nothing. I am just, I am so excited to, like, get in and start solving it. **\[24:29\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** That's why Tim's your guest. Yeah, we have a lot in common. **\[24:33\]** **Amanda:** And start playing with the code. And like I even said previously, it's like, I always forget to ask for a deposit before I start working. I just want to start going and playing and doing on a recent project Sean gave me a statement of work. And I modified that a little bit to fit what I was doing. But here's a funny little aside. You really have to be careful with even the boilerplates. My partner, Andrew, and I have a child. And when he was being born, we decided to be adults and get wills. So Andrew's uncle is a lawyer. And so he sent us just this basic boilerplate information. And thank God Andrew actually sat down and read all of it because there was something in there about legitimate children. Andrew and I are not married. So like that was, and it was the fact that it was like, you know, so he had to contact his uncle and be like, this, like, and the uncle was like, oh, yeah, that you're right, gonna change it, it's just always been in there. So sometimes you still have to be careful with these, you know, boilerplate, sort of, yeah, they've been around forever, everyone's been using them, it must be okay. **\[25:49\]** **Mike:** And if you didn't change that, your uncle would have gotten your entire estate instead of the kid. No, no, no, no, no, because I think it's something, **\[25:56\]** **Amanda:** No, because- Shut up? No, because the kid is listed as beneficiary on all of the individual things, but it's like if we'd gotten a new life insurance plan and hadn't spelled it out that way, then who knows what would have happened with that money and, yeah. **\[26:11\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so to go back to my contract, like Mike, I had cobbled together some stuff from the internet and also a web celebrity, but it was an American style template. And I'd use that and added in some other things that I'd seen on forums. And then I was part of a chamber of commerce for a year. Didn't end up liking it that much so I left. But during that year, I talked with this lawyer and he needed a little bit of help on his website and I wanted my contract vetted. So we just did a exchange. I spent an hour on his website and he spent an hour and fed it my contract and said, make these changes, this is good, this is not, we need to adjust this so it works in Canada. So I have a vetted contract, but this is from three or four years ago so things may have been changed and that's where Mike took, he took that from me. **\[27:11\]** **Mike:** Yeah, I got some of that information, that's right. **\[27:13\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** So, but like I mentioned earlier in the episode, I don't use the contract consistently. I started working with a new agency here in Toronto. I built an entire website for them. Didn't sign a contract, got a statement of work. I agreed to a new website with a contract, a statement of work, that I'll be starting at the end of it next month. I mean, consistent. Like Amanda, I really want to get into it. But sometimes I slow down and I was like, yeah, I think it's good to have this. **\[27:47\]** **Mike:** But it's something to, like Tim and Amanda, I can tell that you've worked well together because you both have the same philosophy, Tim, you alluded to earlier that you'd rather just have someone eager to do the work and not, you know, eager to sign a contract kind of thing. And Amanda, you just like to get your hands dirty and all that. Like there's some value in that and knowing that, okay, we both, the client and the contractor just want to get this work done and get started, and rather than worry about what's going to happen when it doesn't work. There's something to be said for that, right? **\[28:23\]** **Tim:** And I think I'm going to go back on what I said earlier. If either Mike or Sean came to me with that contract, I would definitely look at it if there wasn't anything really weird in it, I would sign it. I would probably have a problem with it. I would have to have a problem with that cause you were talking about Mike, where we don't have access to code, because it's just like, because our clients make us sign a lot of times that we like we can't throw them that cause so I can't you know you couldn't make claim to your work for me to make claim to them. You know what I mean? **\[28:53\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** Sure, but that's where flexibility and negotiation on the contract go in like Mike said he has pulled it out before and in a case where he's working for you he probably would again. I mean, I mean, yeah. **\[29:05\]** **Mike:** Yeah, Sean's a hook me up with new contract. We're not going to be speed up live on the podcast. **\[29:10\]** **Tim:** is mine back off. This has been a really great conversation and informative and not at all legal. **\[29:23\]** **Amanda:** So thank you, Tim, so much for joining us and sharing some of your thoughts and opinions about contracts. For those interested in learning more about you, share where they can find you. **\[29:33\]** **Tim:** Sure, I think probably the best place to contact me is on Twitter at Tim's go T-I-M-S-C-O six letters. OG Twitter handle I'm still proud of. Yeah, that's very impressive. I like it. Although I don't publish much content, it's mostly, but if you want to DM me, I think my DMs are open or just follow me. I'll probably follow you back because I don't have a lot going on. And then our site is adchat.ai, **\[29:56\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** and wonderthing.co. Excellent. Thanks so much for coming out. Yeah, really nice to meet you guys. **\[30:03\]** **Tim:** and maybe someday soon in the real real world someday soon in the real yeah I'll bring my contract you can sign it before you meet me totally I'd love to see you **\[30:14\]** **Mike:** I just see you know to me. Thanks a lot Tim yeah this was really good. Alright likewise guys. **\[30:19\]** **Amanda:** The website 101 podcast is hosted by me Amanda Loots. You can also find me online at at AmandaLoots.com. **\[30:31\]** **SPEAKER\_03:** Recording from a secret layer while plotting world domination, I'm Sean Smith, your co-host. **\[30:37\]** **Mike:** One of your hosts today was me, Mike Mella. Find me online at belikewater.ca or on socials at Mike Mella. Close Transcript Have a question for Sean, Mike, and Amanda? [Send us an email](/contact). [![Listen on Google Play Music](/assets/images/google_podcasts_badge@2x.png)](https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly93ZWJzaXRlMTAxcG9kY2FzdC5jb20vZmVlZC5yc3M%3D)[![itunes badge](/assets/images/itunes-badge.png)](https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/website-101-podcast/id1449510012)[![itunes badge](/assets/images/spotify-logo.png)](https://open.spotify.com/show/3rmSM1R9t6q1U8DmYWJRSO?si=NrYPMgDaRV6Dd56PjEaPow)### Season 05 - 1 [ Meet your Host - Sean](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-1/meet-your-host-sean/) - 2 [ Meet Your Host - Mike Mella](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-2/meet-your-host-mike-mella/) - 3 [ Wes Bos - Your Web Boss](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-3/wes-bos-your-web-boss/) - 4 [ Tailwind CSS with Adam Wathan](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-4/tailwind-css-with-adam-wathan/) - 5 [ Starting my own Website with Bill Campbell](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-5/starting-my-own-website-with-bill-campbell/) - 6 [ CSS is Awesome with Kevin Powell](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-6/css-is-awesome-with-kevin-powell/) - 7 [ Meet Your Host - Amanda](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-7/meet-your-host-amanda/) - 8 [ 11 Things to avoid doing on your website](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-8/11-things-to-avoid-doing-on-your-website/) - 9 [ Vanilla Javascript - Fundamentals before Frameworks](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-9/vanilla-javascript-fundamentals-before-frameworks/) - 10 [ Hiring Junior Devs and How to Stand Out from the Crowd](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-10/hiring-junior-devs-and-how-to-stand-out-from-the-crowd/) - 11 [ AlpineJS with Caleb Porzio: Lightweight javascript in your markup.](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-11/alpinejs-with-caleb-porzio-lightweight-javascript-in-your-markup/) - 12 [ Contract Opinions From Not a Lawyer](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-12/contract-opinions-from-not-a-lawyer/) - 13 [ Talking to a New Dev](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-13/talking-to-a-new-dev/) ### All Seasons - [Season 01](https://website101podcast.com/season/01/) - [Season 02](https://website101podcast.com/season/02/) - [Season 03](https://website101podcast.com/season/03/) - [Season 04](https://website101podcast.com/season/04/) - [Season 05](https://website101podcast.com/season/05/) - [Season 06](https://website101podcast.com/season/06/) - [Season 07](https://website101podcast.com/season/07/) - [Season 08](https://website101podcast.com/season/08/) - [Season 09](https://website101podcast.com/season/09/) <!\[CDATA\[YII-BLOCK-BODY-END\]\]>