--- title: Meet Your Host - Mike Mella date: 2022-01-25T05:00:00-05:00 author: Sean Smith canonical_url: "https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-2/meet-your-host-mike-mella/" section: Podcast --- <!\[CDATA\[YII-BLOCK-BODY-BEGIN\]\]>[Skip to main content](#main-content)Season 05 Episode 2 – Jan 25, 2022 27:43 [Show Notes](#show-notes) ## Meet Your Host - Mike Mella  0:00 0:00 1.0x 0.75x1.0x1.25x1.5x2x [](//dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/website101podcast.com/uploads/mp3/season-05/Meet-Your-Host-Mike-Mella.mp3) Sean interviews Mike about his journey to becoming a web developer ### Show Notes - Bootcamps / college - Started with Macromedia Flash - Mike was a drummer in 4 different bands - learned web development to build the band websites - First website built for his band in late 90s - First client site - restaurant (February 2000) - First job was web developer at a magazine publisher - Build tools - Design vs Development preferences - Advice for new web development ### Show Links - [Mike's first client website - wayback machine](https://web.archive.org/web/20010402044843/http://www.merchantmanpub.com/) - [Adobe Image Ready](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_ImageReady) - [CSS Zen Garden](http://www.csszengarden.com/) - [SASS](https://sass-lang.com/) - [Tailwind CSS](https://tailwindcss.com/) - [Grunt](https://gruntjs.com/) - [Alpine Js](https://alpinejs.dev/) - [Vue](https://vuejs.org/) - [Petite Vue](https://github.com/vuejs/petite-vue) - [jQuery](https://jquery.com/) Powered Transcript Accuracy of transcript is dependant on AI technology. **\[00:00\]** **Sean:** Hello, and welcome to the website 101 Podcast. I'm your co-host, Sean Smith. And with me, as always, is my co-host, Mike Mele. Mike, how are you doing today? I'm doing well. How are you, Sean? Excited about this episode? Oh, I'm doing great. I'm looking forward to this episode. Just like the last episode you interviewed me, this time, I am going to interview you and get all the dirt on your life. **\[00:28\]** **Mike:** That's right. Hopefully somebody out there finds some of this interesting in their own career, I guess **\[00:36\]** **Sean:** yet. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, everybody has to start somewhere, so I think it's a great idea for us to talk about where we started and it's your turn. **\[00:45\]** **Mike:** I certainly learned a lot from you last time about your path to professional web developers, so yeah, I think this should be really cool. **\[00:54\]** **Sean:** All right. Our first question, Mike, what led you to web development and design? **\[01:02\]** **Mike:** Okay, so my history, like I live in Toronto now obviously, but originally I lived on the East Coast of Canada, and that's where I went to school. And after high school I went to university, but I didn't, like back then we're talking the 90s, so there was no web development course of any kind in existence. Definitely not. There was no web. I mean, there was a web, I guess, but not really. Anyway, so I didn't study really formally in university, but after university, I did take a programming course. One of those kind of concentrated 10-month courses where you just learn everything, you know, one of those things. They still have sort of courses like that. Sort of like a boot camp, but a little bit more extended. And more expensive. It was very expensive. It was through a college, and you know, you're learning a little bit about various things. And it was more, not even, I don't know, programming is the word. It was more like programming the apps that people would have used back then, but by app, what I mean is something like Microsoft Word. It's like building tools like that. It was kind of weird. It was a strange course. We barely touched the surface of web in one sort of module of it. I don't think there was any PHP. There was the 90s. **\[02:20\]** **Sean:** There really wouldn't be much web. Web didn't start taking off to about 97. **\[02:25\]** **Mike:** Well, no. So, Denise is when I was in university. So this course I'm referring to would have been in the year 2000. So there was sort of, I guess, some web stuff going on at that point, but anyway, suffice to say I didn't really learn too much from that particular course. And then after that, I moved to Toronto because I used to play, we said this before on the show, I used to play in a band at that time. And along with doing sort of temp jobs as everyone does when they first move here, I sort of started to teach myself web development and web design, CSS and that kind of thing. Actually let me back up just one second here. I knew I was gonna end up going all over the place during this interview. Here's the start of it. **\[03:16\]** **Sean:** This is good, though. It's everybody's got their own meandering power. Yeah, exactly. **\[03:20\]** **Mike:** Yeah, yeah. So before I moved, right before we moved here to Toronto, I did get a job in PEI, that's where the province where I'm from, doing flash design. So I know you know it flashes. For anyone who doesn't know, flash was a technology made by a company called Micromedia and then Adobe ended up owning it. But it was basically making these kind of like movies that you can put on the web. But someone realized that you can have a button that when you click a button, it skips to a part in the movie. So someone was like, well, why don't we just make a website out of a flash movie? So you could click a button. It would hop over to the contact us part of the movie and everything would animate in and all this crazy stuff. **\[04:06\]** **Sean:** I mean, at the time, Flash was basically the only way to have interactivity or any sort of video. And it was really, really popular in the day. There was downsides to it as in, you'd visit a page and you'd have to loading icon, waiting for 30 seconds for a page to load in because it was so heavy. **\[04:28\]** **Mike:** Yeah, it's funny because nowadays with all the fancy JavaScript stuff, you see that again. You see all this animation in web development, but yeah, back then you had to do it through that and it was this, you need to have what's called the Flash Player, which was built into all the browsers so no one worried about it but some people were like, well, this is all owned by one company. **\[04:49\]** **Sean:** Technically not built in, you had to download it as an extension for your browser. **\[04:54\]** **Mike:** Well, it was usually shipped with a lot of the browsers and it was shipped with windows at the time as well. That's true. But yeah, it wasn't built in in the sense that the browsers could handle it. It was more like, yeah, we'll use, it's a plug-in. It was technically a plug-in. So people worried about it, and it fell out of favor eventually. But at the time, it was all the rage, and I adored Flash. I was pretty good at it, too, designing in Flash. **\[05:17\]** **Sean:** Oh, there was a huge market for it, and Steve Jobs killed Flash when he wouldn't allow it on the iPhone. **\[05:23\]** **Mike:** Yes, that's right. That it was a big change, yeah. So anyway, I did get a job that was doing these, it wasn't even web, I guess it was Web stuff, but it was mostly these kind of presentational movies, you watch some kind of like tutorial on how to use a piece of software and it would show you all these flashy things. Back then I had to actually have the most pointer as an object in the movie and I had to move it around, like there was no most tracking like you would have in a typical screencast software or something, it was really, really tedious, but anyway. That was my first sort of foray into web development was that and then after that we moved to Toronto when I started learning CSS and that kind of stuff. **\[06:02\]** **Sean:** Cool, so you mentioned that you were in a band, and I know that you were a drummer in the band, and that you actually have recordings and stuff, and if you know the name of Mike's band, you might actually be able to find it somewhere and obscure parts of the internet. Mike did share with me privately, so I've heard it, and it's actually pretty good. It's, I like that. **\[06:26\]** **Mike:** To be sure, I was in four different bands over the past 25 years or something, so yeah. **\[06:32\]** **Sean:** All right, so my question is, does your musical talent or experience effect or inform your approach to web development in any way? **\[06:42\]** **Mike:** When I was in the first band, me and our bass player were both into this web development stuff, so he and I sort of together designed and built all of our websites. time we would have a new album we'd sort of redesign the website and that kind of thing. And there were actually pretty cool websites too and back then it was table based design which I'm sure you recall where we had to have an image that you'd made in Photoshop and then you'd cut it up into cells of a table and it was ridiculous but that's how you had to do it back then. So we used to do the websites for the band that we were in and we had like a blog, all this kind of stuff. You had a blog? We had a blog really early on and we used to talk about the shows we'd play and the tours that we went on in that. It was really cool. I have to be honest. **\[07:32\]** **Sean:** You guys were cutting it. If you had a blog, what was that, like, 2004, 2005, that's right around the beginning of blogging. **\[07:39\]** **Mike:** We had, I remember our first website would have been around 2000, because the album came out in 1999, and so it would have been right after that. In preparation for this episode, I actually went on the way back machine, the internet archive. And I looked up some of the old URLs that I still remember, and I did find, this isn't the band thing, but I found my first paid client website in the internet archive. You can look it up. It was from the screenshot they have, the oldest one was from February of 2000, and it's all still there. I might maybe I'll put it in the show notes if anyone wasn't talking about it. I hope you do. The only bummer is there was a part of it that was built with Flash. It actually had this little animated thing and it's going to all be broken now. Yeah, because of course now no browser will allow Flash to play because it's a real security risk. **\[08:34\]** **Sean:** And the Flash sort, the way back machine doesn't always keep all the source files for things **\[08:38\]** **Mike:** too. Yeah, that's right. But a lot of it is there and it's pretty funny to look at. So maybe I'll put that in the old show notes. But yeah, to answer your question, being in the band, we all kind of worked on our websites and we were pretty proud of it, so it was pretty cool. **\[08:54\]** **Sean:** So way back when Mike was a DIY guy. **\[08:57\]** **Mike:** That's right, yeah. **\[08:58\]** **Sean:** We all started DIY, like I did DIY when I was doing teacher sites, which I mentioned in my episode. **\[09:05\]** **Mike:** Yeah, I have to start somewhere. You're not going to be designing for apples as soon as you get out of the gate, you know what **\[09:09\]** **Sean:** I mean? No doubt. No doubt. You mentioned that you did your band website. Was that your first website you built or did you build something previous to that? **\[09:21\]** **Mike:** The very first technical web, technically, the first website I've ever built would have been for my very first band, which honestly, that I would have been late 90s. Probably you had said you get started in 97, I think, back on our last episode. I was geocities, yeah. So I remember building my first website on something called Netscape Composer. So for anyone who doesn't remember, Netscape. I don't even know what Netscape Composer is. **\[09:48\]** **Sean:** I know what Netscape Navigator is. **\[09:49\]** **Mike:** Yeah, Netscape Navigator, of course, was the big browser back in the day. It was that and Microsoft Internet Explorer. So if you remember, Internet Explorer had front page, right? Which was like a wizzy wig kind of web. I used front page. Yeah. Well, Composer was Netscape's alternative to that. They had their own sort of site builder type deal. And I can remember, this one I have been able to find because I don't know what the URL was, but I remember the band website was, it was a gray background with green text of the, just typed, the name of the band typed. It's so matrix-y. It was really not good, but that would have been a very, very long time ago, like late 90s, like I say. So that was the first, technically the first website I built. The first client site I built was the one I was next question. Yeah, well that's the one I was talking about where I found on the way back machine. It was for a restaurant and I actually got paid really well for that for the time. I got paid, this would have been, like I said, the first earliest version I found was from February the 2000, so right at the beginning of the new millennium there. And I got paid $1,800 to do that website, which was quite a big, in 2000, a pretty new guy like, that's good money. It's not bad, eh? And this guy was great, the owner of the restaurant and yeah, and I built that site. That was my first professional one, and I realized, oh yeah, I want to get into this deeper. So around 2000, I guess, was the earliest. Hi, hope you're enjoying this episode. We're always looking for topic suggestions. So if there's anything you'd like us to discuss on the show, please let us know. **\[11:35\]** **Sean:** We're also looking for guests. If you have a guest that you think would be great for a podcast, please let us know. If there's a guest that you would love to come back, let us know. You can do that by visiting website 101podcast.com. Slash Contact. So you started getting into web development and now you're on your own, but between going on your own and that time, did you work for an agency or any sort of company where you built up experience and skills? **\[12:08\]** **Mike:** Yeah. After I moved to Toronto, I ended up getting a job at a, it was kind of a publishing company. They published like legal books and things like that for lawyers and stuff. But they also had this side business where they owned all these magazines. That's how, this is so dated up, talking about magazines now. But they owned like, I don't know, a dozen or more magazines for really obscure stuff, like having to do with industrial smoothing and stuff like that, like drill bits and stuff like that, like really out there, not really, very niche market totally, totally. So they owned all these magazines and at the time obviously the web was getting big. So they were like, we got to move everything online. So I got a job there as their web developer who's me and another person and we sort of built websites for all of these individual magazines and had to update them periodically and redesign them every couple of years. And that was a really, really fun job. I liked it a lot, actually. **\[13:11\]** **Sean:** What kind of tools did you use in this job? Were your handcoding like you do now, or were you using things like front page or Dreamweaver? **\[13:18\]** **Mike:** You know, at the time I was getting more into CSS, so I was sort of learning that, but I remember vividly designing from a design standpoint. It was almost always doing it in Photoshop, Cutting it up using image ready, which was Photoshopped. **\[13:34\]** **Sean:** Oh, I remember that. **\[13:35\]** **Mike:** For the image ready. Yeah, it fireworks. I just click a button and it sort of like shows you your Photoshop mockup and you could literally draw cells on it. And it would chop it up into table cells and spit out HTML that was in a table format with all these images in it. It was wild. But anyway, that was how I did most of it until I started to learn more about CSS. And I sort of plugged that in here and there. So it was mostly that. **\[14:00\]** **Sean:** Well, this is right around the time that CSS was just coming out. So everybody was doing the slicing and table-based layouts. See, do you remember CSS Garden? **\[14:13\]** **Mike:** I was just going to bring that up. Yes. CSS N gardener. Yeah, I just found that I remember, like on my personal time, just sitting in front of my computer, flipping through those sites and just CSS N garden for those who don't remember was a site where they had, they talked about, you know, singing the praises of what CSS can do, but visitors could design their own version who knew what they're doing. They could design it with CSS and submit your version of the page, their website, just by submitting a different CSS file and rearranging the content that way. And they would, if they liked it enough, I guess they would put it in the little drop-down menu and you could flip through and switch the design of the page you're looking at. **\[14:57\]** **Sean:** I remember looking at that and just being amazed because the HTML never changed the only thing that you provided was CSS and it's CSS can do this yeah it was just mind blowing and **\[15:10\]** **Mike:** I'm sure I think it's still on we'll have in the show notes it's I'm sure sure it's still **\[15:13\]** **Sean:** up there I actually want to go and check it out I remember checking it within the past couple **\[15:18\]** **Mike:** years it was still there I don't think it's still active in the sense that people are still **\[15:22\]** **Sean:** maybe it is I don't know but I just opened it up and it's there But I don't they're you can't switch them. Oh, oh wait, there's a button view all designs and view all designs leads to like nothing. So yeah, it's it's gone. Oh yeah. Oh well, anyway, **\[15:43\]** **Mike:** yeah, that was that was coming into you know popularity right at that time and I remember like being yeah, like you, I was in awe of that and started to work it into my job there at the magazine place. **\[15:55\]** **Sean:** Yeah, it was inspiration for people to move into modern web development, which at that time was like just basic CSS, there was no no tooling or anything like that. So you know how we use build tools now like webpack or gulp and things like that. When did you start moving into the more automated approach to web development with things like, you know, SAS and and build tools, and... **\[16:26\]** **Mike:** Oh, geez, I, I mean, I got into this SaaS, I don't even use SaaS that much anymore because like you, I use Tailwind most of the time, which is a, I don't know how you describe Tailwind. What is it? **\[16:41\]** **Sean:** A framework? Tailwind, Tailwind is not a framework. I think it's more of a design system. **\[16:46\]** **Mike:** Yeah, and it's a utility, what do they call it? Utility first or something? **\[16:50\]** **Sean:** Yeah, utility CSS. That's not a framework because it doesn't give you specified code to spit out tabs and things like components. Yeah. Compostrap and foundation, dude. Right. **\[17:03\]** **Mike:** But before that, I did SAS. I still like SAS. That's pretty cool for what it does. But SAS is great and everybody should learn it. It's still a big thing. And just for anyone who doesn't know SAS, it's how would we describe that now? Let's you do things with CSS that CSS itself doesn't or couldn't at that time do like five years ago. **\[17:25\]** **Sean:** A lot of things are coming into CSS that weren't available when I started using SAS in 2012 or 2013. But now it's much less necessary, although there's some cool things like so you can nest your styles instead of having to write it out long form each time. **\[17:46\]** **Mike:** Before that, I don't think I, I don't know what, I guess I was just coding HTML CSS kind of by hand. I might have had, oh yeah, I started getting into build tools as well. Grunt was the one I got into first, which would automate compressing my CSS into a smaller file and all that kind of stuff whenever I'm ready to ship it to production and that. So it would have been around that time, I guess, early 2010s, somewhere there, I suppose. **\[18:15\]** **Sean:** Yeah, I don't remember exactly when I started using Grunt, but it was a big improvement. So I know also that you do both design and development, and I know you're an excellent developer because I've seen what you can do, and I'm not a designer. I feel like I have some design sense. So I can't say for sure, but it feels to me like you're a very good designer. Which one do you prefer? Which one do you consider your stronger skill? **\[18:46\]** **Mike:** You know, stronger skill goes back and forth because sometimes something might happen, like I don't win a project where I was pitching the design and then I go, maybe I'm not as good a designer as I think I am, you know, or the other way around. So in terms of my strength, I'm not really sure, but in terms of my favorite, I actually go back and forth. What I find most often is if I do one of them for too long, I get tired of it. So I might have two or three projects going at a time. And if I might be just doing the design phase of two of those projects where I'm just hopping into Figma or whatever the app is, just actually making pictures and stuff. And then I kind of want to get back into the code side. The opposite happens as well. If I haven't designed in a while, I'm just writing code, I feel like I miss the design part. So I kind of go back and forth. I don't know if I have a favorite, really. **\[19:42\]** **Sean:** So it's just kind of like you are the renaissance man. You like them both. **\[19:46\]** **Mike:** Or it sounds like you might be equally scared. Or the master, what is it the jack of all trades and master of none? **\[19:51\]** **Sean:** That could be that too. Hey, I know that you're an excellent developer. We've worked together on some stuff. And I've learned some things from you. And I know you've learned some things from me, development-wise. So by no means a beginner at all, 20 plus years, you do great work. **\[20:11\]** **Mike:** Well, thank you. And it's like you said last episode, like you can never learn everything. You're never gonna be caught up with everything. So, you know, it's not like I'd ever think that I've got to a point where okay, now I am officially a designer or whatever. I've learned all there is to learn that's not gonna happen. So, you know, whatever, just keep at it, I guess. **\[20:31\]** **Sean:** Yeah, well, with code for sure, there's always new technologies coming out and things like that. with design, I think. And again, I'm not a designer, so I'm just expressing my opinion here. I think that you could kind of learn. You could learn the principles. All of the basic ideas or principles of design, but you would need to keep up with trends and things like that. **\[20:58\]** **Mike:** That's the funny, it's funny I mentioned that because recently I've had this idea, this particular sort of approach I was gonna do in design, like an actual design element that I was like, oh, I should try doing that. And I swear to God, I have been seeing that everywhere now. I see it on commercials. I see it on billboards. And I'm just like, oh, so this is, what am I, am I just subconsciously seeing what I'm seeing and thinking I'm coming up with a cool idea? Like, it probably. It's not such an original idea after all. **\[21:28\]** **Sean:** All right. So we talked about how there's always something to learn with web development. What is your goal to learn next or improve your language or skill next? **\[21:45\]** **Mike:** Well, like we've said before, I think on the show, I think you sort of agree with me on this, is that our JavaScript, we both feel like our JavaScript is the weakest part of our **\[21:56\]** **Sean:** development's sort of system. Definitely mine. Yours is probably stronger than mine, but yeah, **\[22:02\]** **Mike:** Yeah, I just feel like I have not really kept up with the JavaScript side of it now, especially with all the react and all the rest of it that there's a view and everything. So trying to get more into the JavaScript stuff, I am starting to use Alpine now, which I know you like, which is a sort of like a, actually I introduced you to the, like what do you call a reactive, sort of like view, like a mini version of view, which there is now called **\[22:28\]** **Sean:** Petite view, right? Yeah, it has its own beauty version, but it's it's funny because Alpine was inspired by view But to be lighter weight and simpler just kind of like a more like a jQuery replacement to sprinkle in reactivity Yeah, yeah, and now view came out with Petite view a few months ago, which is basically **\[22:48\]** **Mike:** As far as I understand it the same as Alp. Yeah, I guess they realized the benefit of maybe maybe people just want little things here and there and this would do it Yeah, so that's great, but starting getting into Alpine a little bit, I realized that it's probably better to start from the fundamentals and learn the very basic of JavaScript before you get into everything else. I do know, you know, we used to do JQuery you and I both back in the day, **\[23:11\]** **Sean:** quite a bit. I can do a lot of JQuery without thinking about it. Yeah, so I find it's It's one of the reasons I like Alpine or View or these kind of things is that I write my code in my HTML file, just like with Tailwind, it's all in one file, it's really easy to keep track of how everything works. **\[23:34\]** **Mike:** It definitely has its advantages, doesn't it, so yeah, but yeah, I guess JavaScript and beyond that, there's all these trendy things, headless CMSs and all that kind of stuff, I guess it all is on top of what JavaScript can do anyway, so that's probably where I'm looking to go these days. **\[23:52\]** **Sean:** All right. Well, one last question for you, Mike, before we go. What advice do you have for a new web developer? **\[24:01\]** **Mike:** So if you just asked me this out of the blue, I probably would have said your advice from last week, which was, you can't, you know, don't feel bad if you don't know everything. **\[24:10\]** **Sean:** Lucky, I would first. **\[24:12\]** **Mike:** Yeah, yeah. That's great advice. Aside from that, what I would say is advice that I wish I had taken more and that is network and help other people without expecting anything in return. Brilliant advice. Yeah, like a percent agree. Especially having been in the industry for 20 years like I have, you know, I mean, you know, I have colleagues you and some friends we have and whatever, but there are people who just know hundreds and hundreds of other developers and designers. And if they are in a jam and they need help or they're looking for projects to be, you know, oh, I'm a little slow this month, is anyone having that kind of stuff? Yeah, it happens all the time. And if you're starting out, just network, go to the events. Even if you're a bit of an inch, I consider myself an introvert to some extent, even though I always go host a podcast. But anyway, But it's just you and me talking. Yeah, so network and just help people like offer help on message boards, Twitter, whatever it is and just answer things on stack exchange, if you can, and as I say, I don't do this, I don't feel like I do it enough and I sometimes notice, you know, the, I feel the effects of that. So yeah, go ahead and be part of the community, I guess, would be, would be my advice. **\[25:37\]** **Sean:** That is excellent advice and I'd like to add in, you said stock exchange and things like that, but find a Discord. Discord is really, really, really good if you get the right community. So, I'm not talking about gaming communities of which I know nothing, but that's what Discord was made for. So, I'm in the Crafts2MS Discord, incredibly helpful and beneficial. I pop in from time to time on front end developers discord and they're also very helpful. There's lots of good information. Even if you just lurk and pay attention to people, you can learn a lot there. The alpine discord. I only pop in there when I'm stuck, but man, I get answers really quickly. They're so helpful. **\[26:27\]** **Mike:** Oh, yeah. Okay. Good. Yeah, that community exists because people do that. They help each other, they network, they introduce themselves, you know. So beat try to be a part of that if you're just getting in at the start of your career because it will pay off in the long run. **\[26:44\]** **Sean:** Excellent advice, Mike. Thank you. Yeah, this was a great interview. I hope that everybody else enjoyed listening to Mike tell us his path to web development and his final tips for new web developers. The website 101 Podcast is hosted by me, Sean Smith. You can find me on LinkedIn. My username is caffeine creations, or on Twitter, where my username is caffeine creation, C-A-F-F-E-I-M-E-C-R-E-A-T-I-O-M, or at my website caffeine creations dot C-A. **\[27:24\]** **Mike:** And by me, Mike Mello, you can reach me online at be like water dot C-A, and also on Twitter We're in LinkedIn, where my username is Mike Mellon, that's M-I-K-E-M-E-L-L-A. Close Transcript Have a question for Sean, Mike, and Amanda? [Send us an email](/contact). [![Listen on Google Play Music](/assets/images/google_podcasts_badge@2x.png)](https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly93ZWJzaXRlMTAxcG9kY2FzdC5jb20vZmVlZC5yc3M%3D)[![itunes badge](/assets/images/itunes-badge.png)](https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/website-101-podcast/id1449510012)[![itunes badge](/assets/images/spotify-logo.png)](https://open.spotify.com/show/3rmSM1R9t6q1U8DmYWJRSO?si=NrYPMgDaRV6Dd56PjEaPow)### Season 05 - 1 [ Meet your Host - Sean](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-1/meet-your-host-sean/) - 2 [ Meet Your Host - Mike Mella](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-2/meet-your-host-mike-mella/) - 3 [ Wes Bos - Your Web Boss](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-3/wes-bos-your-web-boss/) - 4 [ Tailwind CSS with Adam Wathan](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-4/tailwind-css-with-adam-wathan/) - 5 [ Starting my own Website with Bill Campbell](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-5/starting-my-own-website-with-bill-campbell/) - 6 [ CSS is Awesome with Kevin Powell](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-6/css-is-awesome-with-kevin-powell/) - 7 [ Meet Your Host - Amanda](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-7/meet-your-host-amanda/) - 8 [ 11 Things to avoid doing on your website](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-8/11-things-to-avoid-doing-on-your-website/) - 9 [ Vanilla Javascript - Fundamentals before Frameworks](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-9/vanilla-javascript-fundamentals-before-frameworks/) - 10 [ Hiring Junior Devs and How to Stand Out from the Crowd](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-10/hiring-junior-devs-and-how-to-stand-out-from-the-crowd/) - 11 [ AlpineJS with Caleb Porzio: Lightweight javascript in your markup.](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-11/alpinejs-with-caleb-porzio-lightweight-javascript-in-your-markup/) - 12 [ Contract Opinions From Not a Lawyer](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-12/contract-opinions-from-not-a-lawyer/) - 13 [ Talking to a New Dev](https://website101podcast.com/episodes/season-05/episode-13/talking-to-a-new-dev/) ### All Seasons - [Season 01](https://website101podcast.com/season/01/) - [Season 02](https://website101podcast.com/season/02/) - [Season 03](https://website101podcast.com/season/03/) - [Season 04](https://website101podcast.com/season/04/) - [Season 05](https://website101podcast.com/season/05/) - [Season 06](https://website101podcast.com/season/06/) - [Season 07](https://website101podcast.com/season/07/) - [Season 08](https://website101podcast.com/season/08/) - [Season 09](https://website101podcast.com/season/09/) <!\[CDATA\[YII-BLOCK-BODY-END\]\]>